If you didn’t go to a private school, what do you think about those who did?

[hanginds]

Do you feel they had an unfair advantage? Do you care? Do you think they don’t know about the real world?

I really struggle to connect with colleagues who were privately educated as they seem almost entitled to the job. They seem fearless about finding alternative work if needs be, yet I just don’t have that confidence. I assume it’s their background as it’s the only difference between us in the academic/work context.

The point is just that life isn’t fair. Rich people will buy advantages in any way they can. I am more than happy to invest in state education, I think it’s important. As a high earner, I would be happy to be taxed more to facilitate this. I volunteer my time as a governor to provide my expertise to help our local state primary.
What I am not willing to do, however, is to send my children to a school that is well known for violence, disruption and sexual assault. I have the means to avoid it, and so I will pay for it. If that means some randoms on the internet think that makes them arrogant, out of touch or whatever… I can live with that. I actually have more faith in them than to think their entire personalities will change based on their schooling. They are kind, caring, hard working, intelligent and open minded children. I’m not putting them into an awful environment for 30 hours a week in their formative years when I have the means to avoid it.

For me the obvious difference is confidence and lack of self doubt. In business I think that confidence often (but not always) masks a lack of genuine ability.

Underwater so why are these people still in their jobs if they are incompetent?

I work in banking and anyone with no genuine ability is quickly managed out, confident or not.

@twistyizzy
your post is the most ‘ I’m alright Jack’ thing I have read on this entire thread.

Why do anything, it’s all fucked (but in my quiet little corner I’m fine).

Meanwhile the notion that you may have to pay more due to the new government collecting VAT on private ed is a really BAD idea so let’s just keep it as it is.

the collective defence for posters on here that they are not uber privileged seems to be pointing at starmanbobby’s income.

Of course you will do best for your child but collectively as a nation we are letting down millions of kids with piss poor education. This is something to get really fucking riled up about. But hey let’s not do anything (and definitely don’t tax us coz that’s….er….not fair on us)

And some of us are saying that we’re happy to pay more tax to improve state education, would welcome it in fact, but will still choose to send ours to a private school rather than our truly awful catchment secondary.

So much projection on this thread. We have had 4 DC go through various independent day schools (London) over the years. Just like state schools, they vary massively. In my experience, if you have a very academic child and they manage to get in somewhere like Westminster or St Paul's, it's worth every penny. However, some independent schools are absolutely shocking. They can somehow get away with employing teachers who would definitely be phased out in the state sector. One of mine was dyslexic and the head point blank refused to help him on an individual level.

In this part of London, you are surrounded by some of the top independent schools in the country, alongside state schools where there are massive issues with anti-social / violent behaviour, including stabbings. People obviously want a safe environment for their kids - and, I suppose, those who can will pay. If that's buying advantage, so be it. It's no different to the reasons anyone would avoid buying a home in a dangerous area, if there are any other options.

There are a few good state schools, but these have extremely limited catchments and inflated house prices.

The school options people choose for their children are very regionally- specific. If we lived elsewhere, our kids may well have gone to a state school and would have no doubt done very well. It depends on the options around you.

We lived in NL for a few years. DCs went to the local state primary and if we had stayed they would have gone to state secondary.

What we saw there was a totally different approach. There was far more flexibility in the management of the school estate reflecting changes in the town population. New build areas had space which would eventually become shops were first used as nursery schools. Additional temporary classrooms were erected then repurposed or dismantled as school rolls changed.

Schools only had small playgrounds but Wednesday afternoon was kept free and children attended sports clubs which used council run facilities. These same facilities were also available for adults to use.

They dont seem to have this private school / hand wringing thing going on on the continent. Hosted European teens for years when I asked about private schooling I got blank looks. Is it peculiarly English thing?

@TheHoover I'm sorry if my post has read like that, it wasn't the intention. Where have I ever said "I'm OK and screw the rest of you," though? I am just pointing out that inequalities exist and Will always exist. Do I think this is right? NO I don't but it is a statement of fact.
If you read my post carefully I'm very aware of what is needed ie hold government to account for serious lack of investment in the state sector.

Affluent parents will always buy advantage for their kids, whether tutoring + extra curricular activities or private schools. To ignore this is ridiculous.

If the government put VAT on fees then thousands of private school kids will descend on the state sector where there just isn't capacity. You seem to think that we are all massively wealthy to afford school fees, we aren't and a 20% hike isn't affordable. Labour haven't said they will build more schools so where will these ex-private school kids go? This policy will just make private schools MORE elitist as only the truly wealth will be able to afford it and therefore the inequality gap will grow, not decrease.

You have obviously read my post with an unconscious bias just because I send my DD to private school. I am more than happy to pay higher taxes to fund state improvements but again the Tories won't do that. So save your vitriol and righteous indignation for your MP!

I actually never thought we’d use private school. State education is important to me. I’d question, however, if there are many people who would choose to send their children to our truly dire state secondary if they had the means not to. I will continue to support state education in any way that I can, continue to volunteer my time as a governor, but I won’t send them into that environment when I can afford not to.

But that doesn't fit the narrative of selfish, entitled parents who send their DC to private school!

It is not private schools fault, or private school parents, kids or teachers fault, that state education is so poorly underfunded. It's a separate issue.

I would LOVE to live in a higher tax, higher service economy! That would be great.

Even if state education was improved, I would probably still choose a good private school however. I like the choice of niche subjects (art history, classical civ - neither offered in any state school near me, plus being able to take languages of their choice). I like the ethos of sport and fitness (too many kids very anti sport in our local state so lessons are just crowd control - not sure how money will improve that - perhaps having more variety of sports, but there would still be a bunch of non compliant kids with notes from their parents making the lessons a nightmare). I like the smallish classes. Not sure that would happen in state. And I like streaming for lessons - can't imagine that's something Labour would want to widen to all schools (in know some state schools stream for some subjects). And most of all I like the fact that schools can be individual and not completely constrained by government diktat s - igcses for example.

I haven’t seen anyone say that we should do nothing about the dreadful mess of the state education system. You are deluded if you think that banning private schools or imposing VAT on fees will miraculously improve failing schools though. The estimated gain on taxing private schools is a tiny percentage of the overall education spending. Since the 1980s, real terms spending on state education has more than doubled. It hasn’t solved the problems. The problems in the state sector are more deeply rooted than simply a lack of funds. Interestingly, the most poorly performing schools in our area are the ones with greater funding and brilliant facilities. Some of the most badly performing state schools around here have much better facilities than some of the private schools.

Arguably if there’s a “get out” for the rich the drive to improve is lost.

Rubbish. Plenty of bleeding heart rich people send their kids to state school. God knows why, but they do.

Where I'm from and where DP is from there are almost no private schools at all. Some schools are a bit better than others or perceived to be.There's no hand wringing.
To me, this private school thing is a very English thing, and I hadn't meet any privately educated people until I went to a Uni in the SE of the UK and suddenly they were loads of them.
We're both WC class - as in low-income, dad's with manual jobs, grew up in social housing - so those experiences shape our attititudes.
Luckily both of us agree that as we earn a lot, we get taxed a lot and that's how it should be to fund public schools, services, the NHS rather than we earn loads now, let's vote Tory, use private schools, pull the ladder up behind us.

So I am looking forward to a new government who will do away with things like charity status for private schools. And who might actually try to make the UK more equitable rather than increase these ever growing divide.

Children from middle class families whether they went to state or private school are disproportionately represented in these fields.
I think it is highly likely that if private schools were abolished those children who currently attend private schools would still be disproportionately represented in the top universities. I would still be tutoring my children in any subjects where I felt like they weren't reaching their full potential. I would still be sitting down with my children doing work books every day after school from nursery age. I would be still be paying for music tuition. I would still be providing my children with balanced nutrition meals. I would still be providing them a lovely warm home with quiet places to study. This is the really advantage.

My children were at state primaries when they got full marks in their year 1 phonics tests and their ks1 sats, partly because I was preparing them for these tests every night. Most people on mumsnet wouod think this was ridiculous but this is really where their advantage started.

Do you have kids?

I lived overseas in a very 'ex-pat' type community where pretty much everyones kids are privately educated. I was in awe at the opportunities some of these children have - travel, sports etc. One think that strikes me though - is that in some ways it can't be good to have so much so young. What is there to aspire to? If you are used to yearly skiing trips, winters holidays in the Caribbean, business class travel - does anything ever feel special as an adult?

@DanceMonster @twistyizzy
ok I am getting wound up and not acknowledging that you have expressed a strong sense of social conscience. For the record I don’t want to see private educ abolished but would like to significantly improve state education and reduce/reverse the advantage gained by private educated pupils in accessing further education and employment.

Luckily both of us agree that as we earn a lot, we get taxed a lot and that's how it should be to fund public schools, services, the NHS rather than we earn loads now, let's vote Tory, use private schools, pull the ladder up behind us

I earn a lot, am happy to be taxed a lot to fund public schools, services and the NHS, have never voted Tory and can’t imagine that I ever will, volunteer my time to improve public services, don’t want the ladder pulling up behind me, but will be sending my children to private school to avoid our failing, awful, catchment secondary.
So many lazy generalisations.

Of course it does.

The wealthy children would be getting those opportunities even if they weren’t privately educated though.

I meant to add that although we have had 4 DC go through independent schools, we are both immigrants and definitely not from wealthy backgrounds. In fact one of us was a refugee. I can't speak for boarding schools out in the country as no experience of those, but I imagine the demographic there is more traditionally 'British.' But, in the schools mine went to, very few children had two British parents. In fact, I can't think of any.

Two of mine are at Cambridge and they have met people from all walks of life and nobody passes judgement on anyone. It's a shame certain adults on here can't manage to overcome their prejudices and take individuals for who they are.

DD has friends who went to Eton and she says they are not at all arrogant, just very nice people who would help anyone. I know this will confound certain posters on here, but there it is. In her group there a people who grew up on farms, people from China, people from boarding schools, people from grammars / private day schools / comprehensives. She has friends from an East London Academy called Brampton Manor who get more into Oxbridge than any other school. Everybody gets on and these are young people - not 40+ adults in MN who have lived a life (supposedly). It amazes me that some adults are so narrow-minded that they judge other adults on where they went to school. I find this kind of mentality exhausting, to be honest.

@StarmanBobby yet another sweeping generalisation that because we send DD private then we must vote Tory. We don't FYI but don't let that stop you.
Complete lack of critical thinking skills and instead just lazy stereotyping.