Page 22 | If you didn’t go to a private school, what do you think about those who did?

hanginds · 2023-03-21T20:56:11+00:00

Do you feel they had an unfair advantage? Do you care? Do you think they don’t know about the real world? I really struggle to connect with colleagues who were privately educated as they seem almost entitled to the job. They seem fearless about finding alternative work if needs be, yet I just don’t have that confidence. I assume it’s their background as it’s the only difference between us in the academic/work context.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 22/03/2023 20:08

DanceMonster · 22/03/2023 19:31

Of course not everyone who wants to go to private school but can’t afford it would get a place, apart from anything else there wouldn’t be the capacity for it. A lot of private schools do offer excellent bursaries and scholarships though.
Equally if all parents of private school pupils decided to pull them out and send them to state school, there wouldn’t be capacity for them in the state schools. Ours is massively oversubscribed already, as many are. It would take years to build capacity to accommodate them.

All of the private schools near us offer bursaries and scholarships, but even the most generous ones don't offer anything close to full fees, so those places are not taken up by kids from poor backgrounds - the parents need to have at least a few thousand pounds of disposable income in order to make up the difference, and that is completely beyond the reach of many families. They're mostly used as a marketing tool to attract families who can afford to invest quite a lot in private education but couldn't quite stretch to the full fees.

I'm sure that there are schools that offer 100% scholarships and/or bursaries to loss of kids from low income backgrounds but I think they're few and far between. They would have to have pretty hefty endowments to make it possible, as I can't imagine that many fee paying parents would want to pay double in order to fund the free places.

ort1gia · 22/03/2023 20:25

They don't pay double but in many schools you pay more than you would do otherwise (eg 8,000 per term rather than 7,000) and the surplus goes into the bursary fund. Some schools to a greater extent than others obviously. Very selective schools are all about results do they would rather take the x% who do best in the entrance exams whether they can pay or not.

shinynewapple22 · 22/03/2023 20:35

I only know a couple of people who went to private school and these were small private schools in an area where their local state school probably wasn't brilliant . They probably have an advantage over other children in the locality whose parents couldn't afford the private school - but there is nothing about them suggesting any benefit over others who attended a decent state school .

I don't know anyone who attended public school though .

Onthenosecco · 22/03/2023 21:08

MrsSamR · 22/03/2023 18:39

I love all these comments claiming private schools don't offer scholarships/bursaries etc. Of course they do - it's just not advertised everywhere! My school offered what they called assisted places but in reality a lot of the students went for free and others had hefty discounts. It's a lot more affordable than people think. It's often for children whose parents can't afford to send them but they have a lot to offer to the school so academic/sporty/musical etc.

Right. So kids who would succeed anywhere?

faffadoodledo · 22/03/2023 21:14

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves same round here. Not that the private school has v stringent entry criteria, but it does offer nice small class sizes. But yes, you may get 15%off in return for say your music skills. So it's not free money - they school gets something in return, and the state school, I suppose, loses something.

GnomeDePlume · 22/03/2023 21:28

StopFidgeting · 22/03/2023 18:14

Maybe not 'full' of those on bursaries, but anyone can go private if they really really want to. Bursaries are available to most that want them and can't afford the fees.

Show quote history

Out of curiosity I looked at my local private school website to see the bursaries available. According to their website there are 60 pupils out of 830 receiving some sort of bursary (between 10 & 100% of fees only). Demand outstrips supply.

So I don't think it can be claimed that anyone can go private if they really really want to. Perhaps it is different in cities but in my rural county private is only really an option if you can afford it.

Certainly in my county, private school is a luxury and should be taxed as such. Where there was specific educational need for a child to go to a private school then it would be possible for tax adjustments to be made. But on the whole it is a luxury.

Staffielove23 · 22/03/2023 21:43

I think their parents put their own children’s interests above that of a more equal society. Make of that what you will. I take everyone as they come.

mindutopia · 22/03/2023 21:44

I think the issue here is that people are conflating ‘privately educated’ with ‘posh’. I went to private school my whole life and Dh went from halfway through primary, but neither of us is ‘posh’.

My mum was a single parent. She did work in accounting but didn’t have a university degree. My dad was a technician in a chemical plant who barely got any qualifications when he left school. My grandparents either were factory workers or long-term unemployed due to disability and lived in tenements most of their lives. I only went to private school because my mum worked FT plus did cleaning and caring work evenings and weekends. We had about a year where we lived in a campsite because we couldn’t afford rent, but she wanted me to go to a good school and the state schools near us were rubbish.

Dh’s mum was a part-time teacher and his dad was a police officer who went off on disability and then died quite young due to alcoholism. Dh’s family are dairy farmers (not the posh Cotswold’s sort!). His parents managed it because they got a significant discount for living within so many miles of the school and a rich uncle paid the rest because he felt sad about dh’s home life and thought it might help (he is also dyslexic and had a speech impediment in primary and his state school was doing nothing to support him).

We’re not the Middleton’s. We paid our way through uni, worked (I worked FT through a good bit of uni). I do have postgraduate degrees but nothing mummy and daddy paid for (my dad died when I was a teenager). We don’t have trust funds. We don’t go skiing (never been in my life). I didn’t have a proper decently paying job til I was early 30s. Dh has a successful business, but one he started with about £2000 of savings while we were scraping by with a small child in a freezing damp rental. We are pretty normal. Just like all of our friends who come from really varying backgrounds. I don’t think going to private school alone necessarily gets you too far ahead.

A lot of my closer friends here who went to private school seem to work in trades or retail. The people I know who are truly well off are so because of family wealth and I think that buys a degree of confidence that education alone can not. I have a friend who is very ‘follow your dreams and success with follow!’. She was living on benefits in a squat and ended up meeting a guy who is an heir to a family manor that is like 800 years old and with 300 acres and properties with tenants and a vast fortune. Despite her humble upbringing, she’s hugely out of touch, because she is wealthy with a (castle)roof over her head. It’s easy to be confident in that situation. But not everyone who went to private school comes from a wealthy family.

lookluv · 22/03/2023 22:35

2 DCS - 1 in state, 1 in private
Both are as confident as each other. Schools chosen suit each of them and any issues they have.
Extra curricular activities are undoubtedly better at the private school but that suits that child, the other is more bookish and not so sporty.

Biggest difference is the length of the school day and the punishment reward systems and how they are implemented.

Private child starts school at 0800 ends at 1645
State school child starts at0930 and finishes ar 1530.

More teaching, means more education - there is a simple equation here!

Entitled - no way - single mum here busting her balls to provide the best for her DCs that suits their needs.

Nothing morally repugnant, vile or elitist about that.

TheHoover · 23/03/2023 06:25

Nothing morally repugnant, vile or elitist about that.

Well it does mean you have the means when 95% of the population do not. So in that respect you can’t get away from the fact that it is elitist…regardless of whether ‘affortability’ for you is easy or a bit of a struggle

Beezknees · 23/03/2023 06:41

I have honestly never met anyone who was privately educated, so I don't think anything.

Notanothernewname · 23/03/2023 06:58

Interesting thread. I went to private school (boarding school too) I hadn't realised I was so loathed by society. I wasn't musically gifted, not into sport and really couldn't be bothered to learn. It was so long ago now my work experience has helped me more than my education though.

It's also not something that tends to come up in conversation but when it does people say they can tell or it makes sense. Whatever that means.

Hoistupthemainsail · 23/03/2023 07:00

I didn't go to one but my DH did and my kids do. I find you meet arseholes from all walks of life.

Hoistupthemainsail · 23/03/2023 07:01

Lcb123 · 21/03/2023 21:05

Private school is immoral in my opinion. I’d avoid being friends with someone who went to one

So is paying more for a house in a catchment area of a good school. It's all unfair really.

faffadoodledo · 23/03/2023 07:01

@Notanothernewname that's really interesting. Have you never been tempted to ask them what they mean?

Hoistupthemainsail · 23/03/2023 07:02

Notanothernewname · 23/03/2023 06:58

Interesting thread. I went to private school (boarding school too) I hadn't realised I was so loathed by society. I wasn't musically gifted, not into sport and really couldn't be bothered to learn. It was so long ago now my work experience has helped me more than my education though.

It's also not something that tends to come up in conversation but when it does people say they can tell or it makes sense. Whatever that means.

Totally loathed. And immoral and unable to get shit done. Apparently. Although I've no idea as I haven't met you and you could be really lovely.

Hoistupthemainsail · 23/03/2023 07:03

Beezknees · 23/03/2023 06:41

I have honestly never met anyone who was privately educated, so I don't think anything.

Do you ask everyone you meet whether they are privately educated?

StarmanBobby · 23/03/2023 07:04

‘I love all these comments claiming private schools don't offer scholarships/bursaries ‘

’scholarships’ in most private schools are rare, and often not it means tested anyway - given to kids who excel, and I mean EXCEL, at a sport or music or academically.
Bursaries, tend to be low -
it might be nice to get £1500 of the fees because your child is good a cricket, or music, or is able but £1500 of costs of £15k,
£20k for each child is not filling private schools with WC children.

Private schools are a business,
not charities - despite their tax status- and people who send their kids there don’t want to see them stuffed with WC kids on free rides. That’s not what their paying for.
they’re paying for privilege and a leg up in the world.

Kefir · 23/03/2023 07:07

StarmanBobby · 23/03/2023 07:04

‘I love all these comments claiming private schools don't offer scholarships/bursaries ‘

’scholarships’ in most private schools are rare, and often not it means tested anyway - given to kids who excel, and I mean EXCEL, at a sport or music or academically.
Bursaries, tend to be low -
it might be nice to get £1500 of the fees because your child is good a cricket, or music, or is able but £1500 of costs of £15k,
£20k for each child is not filling private schools with WC children.

Private schools are a business,
not charities - despite their tax status- and people who send their kids there don’t want to see them stuffed with WC kids on free rides. That’s not what their paying for.
they’re paying for privilege and a leg up in the world.

Your posts remind me of one of those blokes you meet sometimes who opine loudly on things they really don't understand. Probably a bit like an arrogant private school person!

StarmanBobby · 23/03/2023 07:07

‘went to private school (boarding school too) I hadn't realised I was so loathed by society.’

no-one loathes you - though people will have pre conceived ideas about you and your background.

but as you were sent to boarding school, the only thing I feel is pity. Same as I feel for May child who was shipped off to an institution.

faffadoodledo · 23/03/2023 07:07

@Hoistupthemainsail remarks about paying more for housing are always used as counter arguments but are really confined to very few areas. Most people send their children to their local schools. They have no choice either through income or circumstance. It is such a tired MN trope. And it's telling that in theses 'leafy' areas there are also plenty of private choices, so people aren't just moving there for state schooling. Teddington, where I used to live, is a good example of this.

StarmanBobby · 23/03/2023 07:10

‘Your posts remind me of one of those blokes you meet sometimes who opine loudly on things they really don't understand. ‘

I work in secondary education, in a role that means I have a lot of contact with private, boarding and state schools in the U.K., and international British private schools.

My perception of the kind of people churned out by the private system and the like, is based mainly on the people I work with, at my company and others.

Hoistupthemainsail · 23/03/2023 07:10

faffadoodledo · 23/03/2023 07:07

@Hoistupthemainsail remarks about paying more for housing are always used as counter arguments but are really confined to very few areas. Most people send their children to their local schools. They have no choice either through income or circumstance. It is such a tired MN trope. And it's telling that in theses 'leafy' areas there are also plenty of private choices, so people aren't just moving there for state schooling. Teddington, where I used to live, is a good example of this.

It still happens but granted I don't have the stats. Do you? Do you also have the stats for free grammar places where people pay to tutor the kids within an inch?

Hoistupthemainsail · 23/03/2023 07:14

faffadoodledo · 23/03/2023 07:07

@Hoistupthemainsail remarks about paying more for housing are always used as counter arguments but are really confined to very few areas. Most people send their children to their local schools. They have no choice either through income or circumstance. It is such a tired MN trope. And it's telling that in theses 'leafy' areas there are also plenty of private choices, so people aren't just moving there for state schooling. Teddington, where I used to live, is a good example of this.

Actually from a quick google and a read of a report from DOE it seems that house prices near top performing state schools are up to 8% higher.

Kefir · 23/03/2023 07:14

StarmanBobby · 23/03/2023 07:10

‘Your posts remind me of one of those blokes you meet sometimes who opine loudly on things they really don't understand. ‘

I work in secondary education, in a role that means I have a lot of contact with private, boarding and state schools in the U.K., and international British private schools.

My perception of the kind of people churned out by the private system and the like, is based mainly on the people I work with, at my company and others.

Well, that's funny.