Page 5 | Preferred pronoun labels at childrens event

StopitSarah · 2023-03-19T20:21:44+00:00

I took my primary age children to a science event this weekend. It’s run by university students. Almost all of them had their preferred pronouns on their name labels. AIBU to feel that was unnecessary and to feel a bit uneasy? One of my children wanted to know why “the man is saying we should say he/him. Isn’t that obvious?” I asked one of the students who said it was to show support to any trans helpers and was for the benefit of the (adult) students, not the children. I’m SO BORED and irritated by the trans agenda being every-bloody-where. But AIBU? I had a good chat with one of the students and he said that they’re all science students and understand that woman = biological female is too simplistic. My brain exploded.

Original poster

StopitSarah · 19/03/2023 22:29

@dimorphism thank you. Your post is really helpful in clarifying some of my discomfort.

OP posts:

arethereanyleftatall · 19/03/2023 22:36

skyfalldown · 19/03/2023 21:06

it's not that deep. maybe stay inside if you're going to be such a snowflake about things that don't matter.

Oh fgs do some research. Things like this matter very very much.

arethereanyleftatall · 19/03/2023 22:44

Appleypie · 19/03/2023 20:50

YANBU but this is all over universities (I work in one). I keep my mouth shut as I want to keep my job.

Interesting but unsurprising what you say about the student you talked to being shocked at GC teachers- they're in a total bubble with this, I suspect the real world will come as something of a shock.

I think change is coming. Not just what we've seen reported on the news, but I think the kids who are lower down in the school system - mainly young teens- are getting fed up of all the pandering. Anecdotal but certainly among my kids' peers this is the case.

This is spot on with my experience thank fully.

My girls are 14 and 12 and their secondary is having none of it. I had been worried about them being indoctrinated at school, but my 14 year olds life skills debate had the topic 'is society becoming too woke' and it was a resounding yes from the students.

WeeWillyWinkie9 · 19/03/2023 22:53

Everydayimhuffling · 19/03/2023 22:28

It isn't always obvious. It often is with adults, but it definitely isn't with children. Given that, it's particularly easy to explain to children.

It's easy to explain that they are pointless badges too which I would do.

MMoon23 · 19/03/2023 22:59

senua · 19/03/2023 22:23

Divorcedalongtime · Today 20:37 This is to prevent the large amount of suicides in the LGBTQ+ community
Gosh I had no idea that large numbers of LGBTQ+ commit suicide. Do you perchance have a reference to back this claim up?

On a similar note did you know that every time you lie, a fairy dies?

It is a widely known fact that rates of suicide, self harm, suicide attempts and worsening mental health are disproportionately high in the LGBTQ community, especially in LGBTQ youth.
This is mainly found to be the case because of society, discrimination, lack of safe accepting home environments, hate crime, etc.

www.thetrevorproject.org/survey-2022/

LemonadeSunshine · 19/03/2023 23:03

I've made it past being a science student (bless them) and have now been a proper, bona fide scientist for a number of years.
Sex is immutable.
Maybe they'll get to that lecture one day...

Emmamoo89 · 19/03/2023 23:04

Yanbu. It's fucking ridiculous.

DojaPhat · 19/03/2023 23:06

@arethereanyleftatall How did they define woke?

DdraigGoch · 19/03/2023 23:08

One of my children wanted to know why “the man is saying we should say he/him. Isn’t that obvious?”

There's some hope for the next generation, here we have at least one child with some critical thinking ability.

Siameasy · 19/03/2023 23:10

MMoon23 · 19/03/2023 22:59

It is a widely known fact that rates of suicide, self harm, suicide attempts and worsening mental health are disproportionately high in the LGBTQ community, especially in LGBTQ youth.
This is mainly found to be the case because of society, discrimination, lack of safe accepting home environments, hate crime, etc.

www.thetrevorproject.org/survey-2022/

Show quote history

And by implication if you don’t go along with the lie that a male can be a she you’re killing people
Narcissistic, irresponsible and manipulative
Plus your link is American. Where are the stats that “large amounts” of trans people in the UK are killing themselves because people don’t believe in the gender fairy?

nothingcomestonothing · 19/03/2023 23:27

It is a widely known fact that rates of suicide, self harm, suicide attempts and worsening mental health are disproportionately high in the LGBTQ community, especially in LGBTQ youth.
This is mainly found to be the case because of society, discrimination, lack of safe accepting home environments, hate crime, etc.

www.thetrevorproject.org/survey-2022/

It is a widely known fact that that 'fact' is not true. Please don't perpetuate the myth.

Arapawa · 19/03/2023 23:28

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

dolly12345 · 19/03/2023 23:51

StopitSarah · 19/03/2023 21:16

At one point there was a male and a female student at the front of a stage. The woman was collecting pens. I said to my child “go and give your pen to the woman”. I also might have said “go and give her the pen”. This woman was the only person I saw with “they/them” pronouns. Very clearly a woman. I couldn’t see her badge from a few metres away, only when we got close.

she looked a bit cross and it was only as I walked away that I realised I had misgendered her. But if I’d said “go and give them the pen” that wouldn’t have been clear as there was a man and a woman.

If there is a risk of confusion, couldn't you back up your instruction with a point?

I can't get upset about this. It's not up to anyone else to tell anyone what they can and can't write on their own name badge.

dolly12345 · 19/03/2023 23:53

Jenn3112 · 19/03/2023 21:24

Just call people what they want to be called and have fun at the event. Not difficult. It's not a large scale attempt to indoctrinate children, and making a fuss is just going to mean something like this is less likely to run in future if it relies on the goodwill of the students.

Yep

NoSweat · 20/03/2023 00:17

If those running the session are misrepresenting their own sex, I doubt my children would be able to trust anything else that was said.

So go ahead, use whatever pronouns you wish but for those who value clarity, it will cause them to question that person's credibility. As a pp said - for every action there's a reaction.

Kitkatcatflap · 20/03/2023 00:23

Oh for the good old days when name badges had just names .... Colin or Barbara

DdraigGoch · 20/03/2023 00:29

It's very much like telling everyone that they need to use the word 'green' to describe things that are blue from now on.

In many languages, including older forms of Welsh and Irish, the word for "green" and "blue" was often the same.

DdraigGoch · 20/03/2023 00:31

skyfalldown · 19/03/2023 21:06

it's not that deep. maybe stay inside if you're going to be such a snowflake about things that don't matter.

You're brave. Imagine telling a non-binary person that their delusions don't matter. "No, you're not special and your attention-seeking does not impress anyone..."

Vanderlayinfustries · 20/03/2023 00:34

Better never let your child learn a European language because many of them add make and female pronoun rules to everything and it might just blow your bigoted mind;

It wouldn't bother me. My youngest is in primary and has a friend who identifies as they. I couldn't care less it's their choice and their life.

Vanderlayinfustries · 20/03/2023 00:35

By care less I mean it's no big deal not that I'm rude about it! It's just normal.to bem someone living their life their way

DdraigGoch · 20/03/2023 00:35

MMoon23 · 19/03/2023 22:59

It is a widely known fact that rates of suicide, self harm, suicide attempts and worsening mental health are disproportionately high in the LGBTQ community, especially in LGBTQ youth.
This is mainly found to be the case because of society, discrimination, lack of safe accepting home environments, hate crime, etc.

www.thetrevorproject.org/survey-2022/

Show quote history

"LGBTQ" is an unhelpful catch-all. A bit like "BAME" (outcomes for an Afro-Caribbean child will be very different on average from a child of Chinese heritage). So breaking things down between those who are actually attracted to people of the same biological sex, and those who are heterosexual would provide more meaningful data.

Any evidence at all that pronoun badges ever made any difference to anyone?

DdraigGoch · 20/03/2023 00:40

dolly12345 · 19/03/2023 23:51

If there is a risk of confusion, couldn't you back up your instruction with a point?

I can't get upset about this. It's not up to anyone else to tell anyone what they can and can't write on their own name badge.

Show quote history

It's widely considered to be rude to point.

It's perfectly normal to instinctively identify an obviously female person as "a woman". Children do it all the time, they can see straight through badges and outer appearances.

MMoon23 · 20/03/2023 00:46

Siameasy · 19/03/2023 23:10

And by implication if you don’t go along with the lie that a male can be a she you’re killing people
Narcissistic, irresponsible and manipulative
Plus your link is American. Where are the stats that “large amounts” of trans people in the UK are killing themselves because people don’t believe in the gender fairy?

Show quote history

mentalhealth-uk.org/lgbtqia-mental-health/

lgbt people face these issues all over the world…here is a UK link.

no I don’t think your personal beliefs can be responsible for these statistics or what people do. It’s what you do with them that could be, if you were to commit a hate crime, discriminate against an lgbt person etc. simply having your own opinions about gender identity is fair enough!

MMoon23 · 20/03/2023 00:49

nothingcomestonothing · 19/03/2023 23:27

It is a widely known fact that rates of suicide, self harm, suicide attempts and worsening mental health are disproportionately high in the LGBTQ community, especially in LGBTQ youth.
This is mainly found to be the case because of society, discrimination, lack of safe accepting home environments, hate crime, etc.

www.thetrevorproject.org/survey-2022/

It is a widely known fact that that 'fact' is not true. Please don't perpetuate the myth.

There have been many surveys and studies of LGBT young people and LGBT adults that have shown this to be the case again and again. Across countries, demographics etc.

Chocsandflowers · 20/03/2023 01:46

There have been many surveys and studies of LGBT young people and LGBT adults that have shown this to be the case again and again. Across countries, demographics etc.

It's only trans people that the pronoun shift is supporting though, nothing to do with LGB?

I believe suicide and ideation is high among trans people. Not at all sure whether pronoun badges will help though. The Yogyakarta Principles, which outline human rights in the areas of sexual orientation and gender identity, recommend against groups being asked to display pronouns like this (as a pp has already pointed out). So it's entirely possible they're doing more harm than good.