Page 17 | Preferred pronoun labels at childrens event

StopitSarah · 2023-03-19T20:21:44+00:00

I took my primary age children to a science event this weekend. It’s run by university students. Almost all of them had their preferred pronouns on their name labels. AIBU to feel that was unnecessary and to feel a bit uneasy? One of my children wanted to know why “the man is saying we should say he/him. Isn’t that obvious?” I asked one of the students who said it was to show support to any trans helpers and was for the benefit of the (adult) students, not the children. I’m SO BORED and irritated by the trans agenda being every-bloody-where. But AIBU? I had a good chat with one of the students and he said that they’re all science students and understand that woman = biological female is too simplistic. My brain exploded.

CremeEggQueen · 20/03/2023 13:27

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 20/03/2023 13:20

My work have suggested that we should state our pronouns to show customers we are inclusive - 'hi, I'm PinkSparkly, my pronouns are she/her'. At the moment it's voluntary but I can see where it's heading.

Telling everyone is even more ridiculous than having them on a badge or signature!

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You literally just said its voluntary.
Then in the next breath made up a scenario in your head where "you can see where it's heading."
Why?

Abhannmor · 20/03/2023 13:27

Albiboba · 19/03/2023 20:29

Why is it people always say it’s “so boring” when actually you don’t rant for ages about something that is so boring.

Let’s face it I doubt your young child said that because it said he/him under a name tag. It really doesn’t impact you, no need to put yourself in the centre of everything.

What a strange post. Kids are very knowing and perceptive.

Even primary school kids know words like ' obvious '. It's a bit patronising to suggest they can't think for themselves.

ImAGoodPerson · 20/03/2023 13:27

PSNonsense · 20/03/2023 11:01

I am as GC as they come and I don't really care about pronouns. I inwardly roll my eyes as I personally think it's bollocks but hey ho, if it makes someone feel better then all power to them.

I think trans people should live they way they want to - to an extent. If that means dressing in ways they perceive makes them a woman, dress, heels, make up (I only do 1 out of these) then fine. Doesn't affect me at all.

It's when it does affect me as a sex class it becomes a problem, which is accessing sex based spaces which women have fought hard for, being comfortable in toilets, changing rooms, places like prisons, sports, rape crisis centres. Hopefully I'll never have to access some of these but I recognise other, mostly vulnerable women, do, and it shouldn't be with biological males, no matter how they identify.

Women are statistically more at risk of harm from men, and unfortunately we don't know the ones from those with a genuine gender dysphoria just wanting to live their lives as authentically and quietly as possible, from those who seek to harm us. They don't come with a flashing warning.

Hence why spaces are separated by sex in the first place. A lot shout 'harmful men will access these spaces anyway!' if they want to harm, but that's like saying what's the point of locking your doors, having a ring doorbell, if burglars are going to burgle anyway. It's called SAFEGUARDING.

Inclusivity doesn't mean getting to access any space you want.

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This is an extremely popular feeling IME. Most people I know are more than happy to go along with what others want with regards to pronouns and do their best to respect this.

I am involved in what is traditionally a very laddish sport and there is a man there who is now presenting as a she and no one even batted an eyelid. They call her 'her' and by her new name. No issues at all and they treat her so respectfully, as it should be, however they don't believe she is truly female as it isn't possible to change biological sex. She doesn't access female only spaces (which are very protected in this sport due to how few women are involved).

melj1213 · 20/03/2023 13:37

Mamamia7962 · 20/03/2023 13:07

melj123 - Well if it bothers you that much you have a choice, either use your full name but write your short name underneath, write female underneath the short name, or correct adults/children when they think you're the opposite sex.

So essentially if I'm daring to be anything other than ultra feminine - wearing pink, dresses, skirts, make up - then I have to go out of my way to "prove" my gender so that other people don't have to potentially get uncomfortable because they have got my gender wrong?

Or I could just have a badge that says "MJ she/her" which allows people to see at a glance what my preferred pronouns are without the awkward conversations and allows me to wear whatever I want (or is most practical for the task at hand) without having to think "am I going to be repeatedly misgendered if I wear these jeans with my club hoodie as opposed to a skirt?"

lifeturnsonadime · 20/03/2023 13:40

melj1213 · 20/03/2023 13:37

So essentially if I'm daring to be anything other than ultra feminine - wearing pink, dresses, skirts, make up - then I have to go out of my way to "prove" my gender so that other people don't have to potentially get uncomfortable because they have got my gender wrong?

Or I could just have a badge that says "MJ she/her" which allows people to see at a glance what my preferred pronouns are without the awkward conversations and allows me to wear whatever I want (or is most practical for the task at hand) without having to think "am I going to be repeatedly misgendered if I wear these jeans with my club hoodie as opposed to a skirt?"

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No because in 99.9 % of cases your sex is immediately apparent!

No need for a badge at all.

Gender is what is causing the issue here. Labelling people based on notions of gender is unnecessary and ultimately is being used to erode women's rights and to harm children.

ReadersD1gest · 20/03/2023 13:42

melj1213 · 20/03/2023 13:37

So essentially if I'm daring to be anything other than ultra feminine - wearing pink, dresses, skirts, make up - then I have to go out of my way to "prove" my gender so that other people don't have to potentially get uncomfortable because they have got my gender wrong?

Or I could just have a badge that says "MJ she/her" which allows people to see at a glance what my preferred pronouns are without the awkward conversations and allows me to wear whatever I want (or is most practical for the task at hand) without having to think "am I going to be repeatedly misgendered if I wear these jeans with my club hoodie as opposed to a skirt?"

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Pronouns are only used in your absence, so there's no need for anyone to waste any mental energy thinking about it, really 🤷🏻‍♀️
Besides, the idea that a woman wearing jeans and a hoodie is presumed to be a man is ludicrous. Certainly never happens to me.

Whatsnewpussyhat · 20/03/2023 13:42

My teen has gender dysphoria. Every day I see threads like this on Mumsnet and I can't imagine what the future holds for him. He has felt suicidal at times, but apparently I should tell him that he was born female so just suck it up, yes?

Gender dysphoria is a mental health issue. Often a maladaptive, unhealthy coping mechanism for some form of trauma. There is no inner gender essence.

The underlying issue is what needs to be dealt with. Dysphoria doesn't mean a girl is actually a boy and pretending it does and constant affirming of a lie won't solve anything.

As another poster said, you should be angry with those who have been pushing and promoting the new gender religion, that now makes billions each year globally off the back of mentally fragile children, not the women on here who are trying to protect them from it.

Naunet · 20/03/2023 13:43

melj1213 · 20/03/2023 13:37

So essentially if I'm daring to be anything other than ultra feminine - wearing pink, dresses, skirts, make up - then I have to go out of my way to "prove" my gender so that other people don't have to potentially get uncomfortable because they have got my gender wrong?

Or I could just have a badge that says "MJ she/her" which allows people to see at a glance what my preferred pronouns are without the awkward conversations and allows me to wear whatever I want (or is most practical for the task at hand) without having to think "am I going to be repeatedly misgendered if I wear these jeans with my club hoodie as opposed to a skirt?"

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Yeah, you have to be ultra feminine, because of course, there’s no middle ground. 🙄

Ive never in my life met a woman who looks that much like a man, can’t help but think you’re exaggerating how much this happens frankly.

Howdoyoulikeyoureggsinthemorning · 20/03/2023 13:45

Whatsnewpussyhat · 20/03/2023 13:42

My teen has gender dysphoria. Every day I see threads like this on Mumsnet and I can't imagine what the future holds for him. He has felt suicidal at times, but apparently I should tell him that he was born female so just suck it up, yes?

Gender dysphoria is a mental health issue. Often a maladaptive, unhealthy coping mechanism for some form of trauma. There is no inner gender essence.

The underlying issue is what needs to be dealt with. Dysphoria doesn't mean a girl is actually a boy and pretending it does and constant affirming of a lie won't solve anything.

As another poster said, you should be angry with those who have been pushing and promoting the new gender religion, that now makes billions each year globally off the back of mentally fragile children, not the women on here who are trying to protect them from it.

Are other mental health issues laughed at and/or criticized on internet forums? Are those suffering other mental health issues declared sexual predators? Do people refuse to let their children anywhere near those with other, non-violent mental health issues?

Anyone who thinks these kinds of threads are appropriate responses to mental health issues is, pardon the pun, nuts.

Silverperch · 20/03/2023 13:46

Ugh it's so boring. I went to an event last week and the LIST on the door of what behaviour was and wasn't acceptable. "Don't assume people's gender, health, sexuality blah blah blah... Don't touch without consent..." there was a LOT more and I really wanted to take a picture to show my husband but I was worried it would make someone feel "unsafe" so didn't.

And then of course there were the toilets.... no male or female, but ones "with urinals" and "with baby changing facilities" because somehow, despite everything, the little darlings still know who should be changing the nappies....

And don't get me started on the simpering behaviour of the workshop facilitator towards a big tall boy named "Izzy."

lifeturnsonadime · 20/03/2023 13:49

Howdoyoulikeyoureggsinthemorning · 20/03/2023 13:45

Are other mental health issues laughed at and/or criticized on internet forums? Are those suffering other mental health issues declared sexual predators? Do people refuse to let their children anywhere near those with other, non-violent mental health issues?

Anyone who thinks these kinds of threads are appropriate responses to mental health issues is, pardon the pun, nuts.

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No one is laughing at this child with mental health issues or claiming they are sexual predators.

Stop lying.

CremeEggQueen · 20/03/2023 13:49

melj1213 · 20/03/2023 13:37

So essentially if I'm daring to be anything other than ultra feminine - wearing pink, dresses, skirts, make up - then I have to go out of my way to "prove" my gender so that other people don't have to potentially get uncomfortable because they have got my gender wrong?

Or I could just have a badge that says "MJ she/her" which allows people to see at a glance what my preferred pronouns are without the awkward conversations and allows me to wear whatever I want (or is most practical for the task at hand) without having to think "am I going to be repeatedly misgendered if I wear these jeans with my club hoodie as opposed to a skirt?"

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Yes, because you're asking for it looking too manly, what did you expect?! 🙄
Apparently

Colourfingers2 · 20/03/2023 13:49

Divorcedalongtime · 19/03/2023 20:24

Why does it trigger you so much to give everyone equal opportunities? Why is inclusion a problem? It’s good that children learn this early so they never grow into hating themselves for being different and feeling different.

If everyone is equal then nobody is anybody.

Naunet · 20/03/2023 13:49

Howdoyoulikeyoureggsinthemorning · 20/03/2023 13:45

Are other mental health issues laughed at and/or criticized on internet forums? Are those suffering other mental health issues declared sexual predators? Do people refuse to let their children anywhere near those with other, non-violent mental health issues?

Anyone who thinks these kinds of threads are appropriate responses to mental health issues is, pardon the pun, nuts.

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You don’t have to have mental health conditions to be trans, don’t you know that’s considered transphobic now?

pepperquorn · 20/03/2023 13:50

QuizzlyBear · 20/03/2023 09:20

Why would you NOT allow people to be who they feel they are? How does it harm you for the nice chap down the street to ask to be referred to as the nice lady down the street? If Eddie Izzard nicely asks that people use the name Suzy instead as that's what they prefer?

It's the vitriol that gets me - if someone says that 'being gay is a mental illness, we clearly were born / made to have only male/female relationships, that's basic biology' they'd be seen as a massive bigot. Yet it's ok to say that you're being 'indoctrinated' to ask to believe that some people are born identifying as the opposite gender?

History won't look kindly on your viewpoint, just as we criticise those who actively discriminated against LGBTQ people 20 years ago.

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@QuizzlyBear

I think you are confusing the issue.

If some is gay they really are because they prefer same biological sex sex. It's factual.

If a person believe's or feels they are the opposite biological sex that is not factual.

CountZacular · 20/03/2023 13:52

Howdoyoulikeyoureggsinthemorning · 20/03/2023 13:45

Are other mental health issues laughed at and/or criticized on internet forums? Are those suffering other mental health issues declared sexual predators? Do people refuse to let their children anywhere near those with other, non-violent mental health issues?

Anyone who thinks these kinds of threads are appropriate responses to mental health issues is, pardon the pun, nuts.

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What mental health issue? Maybe you should take your cis fantasy diagnosis elsewhere.

Or… maybe this explains the need for gatekeeping after all?

Preferred pronoun labels at childrens event

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 20/03/2023 13:54

CremeEggQueen · 20/03/2023 13:27

You literally just said its voluntary.
Then in the next breath made up a scenario in your head where "you can see where it's heading."
Why?

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Because why suggest it if they don't think we should be doing it? Why did they waste an hour of our time talking about it and other bollocks such as not saying 'Ladies and Gentleman'?

If I started telling my customers my pronouns they'd think I'd lost the plot!

ReadersD1gest · 20/03/2023 13:54

CountZacular · 20/03/2023 13:52

What mental health issue? Maybe you should take your cis fantasy diagnosis elsewhere.

Or… maybe this explains the need for gatekeeping after all?

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When I hear the word cis, I reach for my gun... 🙄

Naunet · 20/03/2023 13:54

CountZacular · 20/03/2023 13:52

What mental health issue? Maybe you should take your cis fantasy diagnosis elsewhere.

Or… maybe this explains the need for gatekeeping after all?

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So you can’t understand unless you’re trans, but men can understand how it feels to be a woman? 😂

ReadersD1gest · 20/03/2023 13:56

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 20/03/2023 13:54

Because why suggest it if they don't think we should be doing it? Why did they waste an hour of our time talking about it and other bollocks such as not saying 'Ladies and Gentleman'?

If I started telling my customers my pronouns they'd think I'd lost the plot!

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Why do they imagine your customers give a shiny shite what your pronouns are??
It's fucking nuts to suggest you shove "your" pronouns down unsuspecting stranger's throats.

CecilyP · 20/03/2023 13:56

Naunet · 20/03/2023 13:04

So what? No one is entitled to a life where they never feel shit, who promised you that?

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But if someone sees you at a certain distance, they’re not going to be able to read your pronoun badge anyway, so doesn’t really solve the problem.

Howdoyoulikeyoureggsinthemorning · 20/03/2023 13:58

Please can everyone stop misreading my post, jesus christ.

TLDR: Someone else declared trans people to have mental health issues, and I was trying to say that if that's the case (which I haven't said it is!!!) then why is it okay to make fun of, criticize, etc etc.

Howdoyoulikeyoureggsinthemorning · 20/03/2023 14:00

lifeturnsonadime · 20/03/2023 13:49

No one is laughing at this child with mental health issues or claiming they are sexual predators.

Stop lying.

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Thank you for your time.

Jourdain11 · 20/03/2023 14:00

My DD2 (who is in Year 5) got told off for laughing when her class was told that some people use the pronouns xe/xem, ze/zir, e/em/eirs. She wasn't being mean, she thought it was a joke. Now she's got recommended reading so that she can be educated.

lifeturnsonadime · 20/03/2023 14:01

Howdoyoulikeyoureggsinthemorning · 20/03/2023 14:00

Thank you for your time.

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I'm sorry I am not the only person who misinterpreted your post.

No need to be salty about it perhaps acknowledge the fact that it was open to misinterpretation.