Preferred pronoun labels at childrens event

[StopitSarah]

I took my primary age children to a science event this weekend. It’s run by university students. Almost all of them had their preferred pronouns on their name labels.

AIBU to feel that was unnecessary and to feel a bit uneasy? One of my children wanted to know why “the man is saying we should say he/him. Isn’t that obvious?”

I asked one of the students who said it was to show support to any trans helpers and was for the benefit of the (adult) students, not the children.

I’m SO BORED and irritated by the trans agenda being every-bloody-where.

But AIBU? I had a good chat with one of the students and he said that they’re all science students and understand that woman = biological female is too simplistic. My brain exploded.

@justteanbiscuits do you actually know any intelligent primary aged children? They question so much and they are not to be fobbed off. “Because some people like to be called differently”?! Really? That would be met with an immediate “why?”

My children don’t bat an eyelid if a man had nail varnish or a woman has short hair. They do question why a woman has “they/them” pronouns - they know from school that the correct pronouns for a woman are not plurals. I’m so happy my children DO question this!

I'd love to know how that would work.

But NO. Women are not second class to males, not even the ones who truly believe that they are women rather than the ones who are trying it on! Ugggh. It just drives me made that people think WOMEN matter so little.

No, not at all. I think people can wear badges if they want. I object to the situation now where some people are more or less being forced to wear badges for fear of being thought of as bigoted. The Yogyarkarta principles specifically advised not asking people to self identify like this, but here we still are.
The majority of people wearing those badges were not trans and they had been asked to wear them. Not a free choice really. That’s what I object to.
I support trans people. I don't support others being bullied in this way.

When you say isolated, what do you mean? Do you mean solitary confinement, because that’s usually used as a brutal and extreme punishment. And I’d argue that isolating someone on their own in a prison they don’t belong in is a bigger breach of human rights than placing them in their correct prison with adequate protections but where they can still have suitable social interactions.

Or would female prison officers be used to provide the entertainment for male inmates as they can’t interact with the estate on the whole?

And if they are just isolated, why can’t they be isolated in their own sex prison? What benefit is there for anyone involved placing them in isolation in a woman’s prison?

I’m sure you are thinking this as well meaning but the answers are never as simple as that.

@QuizzlyBear because they are not a female. So shouldn't be in the female estate, isolated or not. It's an insult to females that a male's feelings are prioritised, especially if they are a sexual offender who has used their male penis to offend. I wouldn't want them there whether they had access to me or not, if I was in prison.

And what is an 'actual' trans person?! How many years counselling/transitioning until they reach actual trans status? The majority of transwomen retain their genitals. No years according to the Scottish Gov. Opening yourself up to all sorts of discrimination accusations there.

Answer of the day, I will use this in future. Thank you Sarah.

My stepson is trans - he came out in his first year of Uni. As did literally every single one of his friends.

I really worry for the future as there is simply zero chance that a group of approx. 10 people in one Uni all have body dysmorphia.

I’m also interested @QuizzlyBear about ‘actual’ trans people. I asked this earlier because according to Abigail Thorn, gender dysphoria is a load of ‘cis’ created bollocks. So who are we actually placing in women’s prisons?

"Lordy, when I was a child in the late 90s, early noughties I could have sworn this battle was over and nobody gave a damn if boys liked to put a bit of make up on or if a girl had a crew cut."

THIS!

I really miss seeing straight or bi male people in skirts and eyeliner, as was quite normal in the late 90s around the time that Brian Molko was around.

Gender expression has definitely regressed.

Where are the equal opportunities for people who are fed up of people moaning about everything?

I'm advocating for ACTUAL trans people (who have received counselling and often spent years transitioning) to receive understanding and compassion for living what is a pretty awful experience.

But if you think you have to actually transition to identify as trans you are deluded - and bigoted, I'm afraid.

Not only that but sometimes people can come across androgynously without realising.

I am female but recently I was volunteering at an event for an outward bounds club I am in and was called "him" a few times by people who had looked at my physical appearance and assumed I was male despite me doing nothing to make my appearance deliberately more masculine.

I recently cut my hair very short (due to health issues that caused it to fall out), no make up - it was an outdoor/sporty event; was wearing the uniform that all volunteers were in of cargo pants, hiking boots, company hoodie and then an oversized volunteer t-shirt over the top which squared off my top half (and my bust was barely visible anyway as I was wearing my wetsuit under my clothes for a demo of some of the activities so I was all compressed under that) and I had a badge with the nickname that everyone at the club uses to refer to me as which is pretty unisex. I was also recovering from a sore throat so my voice was a bit hoarser than usual but definitely not masculine sounding to me. The club is also 80% male and a lot of the other volunteers on the day were male.

None of these things were done deliberately or to make me appear less feminine, they were just how I physically presented that day but the fact a few people referred to me as male was awkward because I either had to let it go or correct them in front of the rest of the group. It's embarrassing to have to correct someone that has just told another person in earshot "I got the form from the man there/That lad was giving these out/He's going to be doing a demo in a bit/He said that .../Hey Jack, this guy is talking about that activity you wanted to try" while pointing at you standing a couple of feet away, and you have to interject to say "Actually, I'm female" and then just be left feeling uncomfortable for having drawn the attention to yourself.

I would have been perfectly happy to wear a she/her badge that day as it would have prevented loads of the misunderstandings and made things a damn sight less awkward.

I think we're at a point where people see a woman with short hair and baggy clothes and think that she probably wants to be he/him so act accordingly. Because you have to fully buy into the stereotypes of womanhood to be a woman these days.

What a load of crap, sorry.
If that was the case though and you genuinely dont know how to respond to people if they dont stereotypically dress as a woman, you're making a great case for the use of pronoun badges?!

melj1213 - Surely wearing a name badge would be better.

@melj1213 I would have been perfectly happy to wear a she/her badge that day as it would have prevented loads of the misunderstandings and made things a damn sight less awkward

Sorry, didn't see your post before posting mine - yes, exactly it makes things a lot easier, surely?

How would that help if say your name was Chris, Alex or Sam for example?

For some people, yes. It makes things harder for lots of others.

How?

In places like smear tests, jails etc the biological sex still stands and I doubt a trans person would put themselves in that position?

You’ve honestly never heard of trans people “putting themselves in that position”? I.e. transwomen in women’s jails, women’s sports, women’s changing rooms?

Please can you give me some stats, are most people trans wanting to compete in sports or do a lot of them work in the medical field?

Ah, so now it needs to be “most” trans people wanting to complete in sports (as in transwomen competing against women), otherwise it doesn’t matter?

Except they are - how can you not know that? Even the Olympics allows it now. And yes, they are putting themselves in a position to do a smear etc, I suggest you start reading up because you seemed to have just assumed that men would never take advantage of women, which is at best, naive. This stuff is happening already. In California ANY man sent to prison can pick the ,ale or female estate, women prisoners are being given condoms FFS.

I suggest you start with looking into the most recent IOC regulations regarding sport.

It's harder for -
People with cognitive difficulties or dementia or poor vision (in the badge situation).
People who are unsure about their gender and not ready to out themselves.
People who find they are treated differently (worse) in a work environment once others realise they are female (sometimes applicable to pronouns attached to email signatures).
People who believe gender stereotyping is a retrograde step and simply don't want to use pronouns but who worry they will be perceived negatively if they don't fall in line.

Off the top of my head

No the most recent case is Barbie Kardashian, the guy who threatened to rape his own mother, now in a woman’s prison.

So posters like mel upthread then should carry on being misgendered and called he, Sir, that lad over there etc when they're not and feeling embarrassed having to call it out or just put up with it?

Oh get over it. If we could control how other people addressed us, women wouldn’t get called bitches and slut, or chest feeders and womb carriers for that matter.