Was I really flirting or is this controlling

[Chayngednayme]

Sorry long one. I am a widow and have been with DB for 5 months although we have been close / attracted for over 2 years now.
We went to the rugby last weekend; he had two old friends over to stay with him and I went along to leaving DC with a babysitter. To cut a long story short, over the day much beer was drunk and I really clicked with the three of them (I have always thrived in blokey company). But by the evening I found myself in (very rare) superb form and was admittedly holding court with the two friends who were clearly thinking I was great. I did notice DB getting quieter as the evening progressed but ignored it; I was having fun and took care to keep it very straight - nothing remotely suggestive or leading them on and right up until the end he was interacting as much as his mates.

By 9.30 I had to get the train home; DB insisted on walking me to the station leaving his mates in the pub even though I used to live near the ground. During the 15 min walk and 5 mins waiting for a train he proceeded to berate me for spending the whole day flirting with his mates and completely embarrassing him. I stayed silent mostly but at one point protested at something he was massively exaggerating and he shouted and made me cry. I jumped on the train without saying goodbye, cried all the way home and barely slept that night.

next morning I ignored his ‘how are you messages’ all day. He showed up with flowers on my doorstep at 7pm despite me desperate for an early night. He apologised quite profusely for getting angry and upsetting me, blaming it mostly on the drink but he made it clear that he still thought I had been in the wrong. I stayed silent despite him pushing me to know what I was thinking then excused myself as I needed an early night saying he could stay but really the best thing was for him to leave (he did). We haven’t spoken since although he has messaged and called; I have told him I am fine but need to think about a few things. He has said he is terrified of me calling it off and just wants to speak.

Some background: in the 5 months we have been together we have been incredibly open about our deepest feelings eg me wobbling all over the place about dating too soon and then having a major inferiority conplex about dating him (he is gorgeous, successful and rich and frankly out of my league). But during one of our chats he admitted he could be prone to jealousy and at the time I didn’t take it seriously as I didn’t think we’d get together much less that I could inspire jealousy in him.

so……should I be worried about this episode being the tip of the iceberg; has he has given me an insight into dangerous controlling tendencies? or am I being completely unreasonable and was I actually flirting badly and should have recognised this and can easily avoid a repeat by behaving better.

thoughts please. Thank you.

[silverycurtains]

It's difficult to say really! I think if I was out with my boyfriend with two other women and he was clearly in his element bantering away with them all night, I might feel a little excluded and upset. He absolutely shouldn't have shouted at you but at the same time, he was remorseful and apologetic for his behaviour (getting annoyed is something anyone could do if they'd had a few drinks!)

You mention he's 'out of your league' so I wonder if insecurity on your part means you feel 'unworthy' in some way and are more comfortable with his mates?

In all honesty, unless there's loads more to it, it doesn't sound particularly controlling and I'd be more inclined to address why you feel he's 'out of your league' and also do some digging to see if his jealous streak is something that he can deal with. On the surface, sounds like a fairly normal relationship disagreement! But if your gut is telling you there's more to it and that he's actually quite controlling, then tread carefully!

[CandleInTheStorm]

@TaunterOfWomenInGeneralSaysSayonarastu

You're inventing this "holding court" nonsense.

I was having fun and took care to keep it very straight - nothing remotely suggestive or leading them on and right up until the end he was interacting as much as his mates.

All parties present were interacting & taking part.

Yet another depressingly predictable response from a woman tone-policing another woman.

Except that is the OPs perception of herself when drinking. The reality is most likely different. If someone filmed themselves whilst drinking/chatting/holding court as op puts it, then watched it back sober they would probably be embarrassed for themselves.

[CandleInTheStorm]

@TaunterOfWomenInGeneralSaysSayonarastu

WTF?

What on earth has OP done that's toxic?

Silent treatment is toxic behaviour.

[Nailsandthesea]

No man worthy of you should ever make you cry

Im thinking that as a widow you really really were vulnerable and he’s love bombed you with an emotional deep connection and is a total abusive prick - he has shown you who he is - blames the drink, blames the fact he loves you and is jealous / he has not and will not change - call it off.

please.

he is a narcissist without a doubt

[WeDoNotTalktoPennilynLott]

I can't get past thinking you're talking about your brother

[Donnashair]

i think the issue here is that you are simply incompatible.

If Dp told me he had been out drinking all day and he had a fab time because he was in fine form, was holding court and everyone thought he was great. I would roll my eyes and imagine he had just been drunk enough that he didn’t realise that not everyone thought he was wonderful.

I have seen this over and over again. Drunk people dominating the conversation (holding court) and not realising that people aren’t as in awe of them as they think. It’s usually men tbh. But women do it too. It’s not the end of the world, but it happens.

I can see how it comes across as flirting if it’s with members of the sex the person has a preference for. Even if it’s not sexual or overt flirting.

But if that’s how Op is and she is happy with it, that’s fine and up to her. He doesn’t like that. That doesn’t mean Op should change. But it does mean it’s unlikely to work out long term.

[America12]

I think anyone who makes you cry isn't worth your time. Dump

[Imnotachap]

He's prone to jealousy - he's literally told you this. This is who he is. It's a way of controlling you.

[TaunterOfWomenInGeneralSaysSayonarastu]

@Sapphire387

I'm not inventing anything - she literally said it in her OP:

But by the evening I found myself in (very rare) superb form and was admittedly holding court with the two friends who were clearly thinking I was great.

And she ALSO said how everybody else was contributing -
right up until the end he was interacting as much as his mates.

PP are taking the innocuous phrase "holding court" & interpreting it as OP being off her tits & not letting anyone else get a word in.

They're also missing the obvious sogns - OP not only describes her superb form as "rare", she said: "me wobbling all over the place about dating too soon and then having a major inferiority conplex about dating him."
**
Hardly the indicators of a serial show-off.

[SadOrWickedFairy]

You seem to have a problem with a woman being on top vivacious form in mixed company. Maybe examine your internalised misogyny, instead of seeking to bring OP down to what you view as acceptable levels of feminine meekness & compliance.

How do you know the OP was on top vivacious form?

Holding court says to me that the OP was dominating the proceedings, social interaction is a two/three/more way action, not one person doing all the talking no matter how vivacious they may be.

[TaunterOfWomenInGeneralSaysSayonarastu]

it doesn't sound particularly controlling

If you believe that berating & shouting at somebody for 20 minutes until they break down & cry isn't controlling behaviour, you need to get your boundaries checked.

Especially when done by a man who has already admitted being prone to jealousy.

[SadOrWickedFairy]

I did notice DB getting quieter as the evening progressed but ignored it;

contradicts this:

I was having fun and took care to keep it very straight - nothing remotely suggestive or leading them on and right up until the end he was interacting as much as his mates.

Either he was interacting the whole time or he went quiet and OP ignored it. Can't be both.

[TaunterOfWomenInGeneralSaysSayonarastu]

@CandleInTheStorm

Silent treatment is toxic behaviour.

Withdrawing from toxic behaviour isn't toxic.

They don't live together, OP had good reason to avoid his contact for at least a day, & he knew damn well why she was avoiding him.

He refused to accept her withdrawal & bombarded her with messages, turned up uninvited, & STILL told her she was in the wrong.

[TaunterOfWomenInGeneralSaysSayonarastu]

@SadOrWickedFairy

You seem to have a problem with a woman being on top vivacious form in mixed company. Maybe examine your internalised misogyny, instead of seeking to bring OP down to what you view as acceptable levels of feminine meekness & compliance.

How do you know the OP was on top vivacious form?

Holding court says to me that the OP was dominating the proceedings, social interaction is a two/three/more way action, not one person doing all the talking no matter how vivacious they may be.

Where are you getting one person doing all the talking from?

right up until the end he was interacting as much as his mates.

[Conkersinautumn]

He apologised but then took that all away by suggesting he thought he was right anyway. He's just going through the motions of apologising with no self.reflection at all. He's not worth the effort, he's more than jealous , he wants you to be cardboard cutout silence. He also expects that as he's done his performative apology all should be fine. Just leave this behind you.

[5128gap]

Well, tbf, one person's drunken 'superb form' is very often another person's embarrassment. Your phrase 'holding court' is quite telling as it does suggest you enjoyed being the centre of attention, rather than an equal participant in the evening. Nothing wrong with that if you're with someone who is happy for you to dominate the evening, and who doesn't find you embarrassing. Sounds like this one isn't that guy though.
He absolutely shouldn't have shouted at you, and for that, plus your different ideas of social behaviour, I'd say move on, as it's not going to change and you shouldn't need to suppress yourself for him.

[DrMeredithGrey2023]

Why do you always 'thrive in blokey company'?

In what way?

I'm thinking there are possibly a few sides to this story

[TaunterOfWomenInGeneralSaysSayonarastu]

@5128gap

Well, tbf, one person's drunken 'superb form' is very often another person's embarrassment. Your phrase 'holding court' is quite telling as it does suggest you enjoyed being the centre of attention, rather than an equal participant in the evening. Nothing wrong with that if you're with someone who is happy for you to dominate the evening, and who doesn't find you embarrassing. Sounds like this one isn't that guy though.
He absolutely shouldn't have shouted at you, and for that, plus your different ideas of social behaviour, I'd say move on, as it's not going to change and you shouldn't need to suppress yourself for him.

He didn't have an issue with OP being on superb form, he had an issue with his own jealousy & conviction that she was flirting.

[Rosula]

@SadOrWickedFairy

I did notice DB getting quieter as the evening progressed but ignored it;

contradicts this:

I was having fun and took care to keep it very straight - nothing remotely suggestive or leading them on and right up until the end he was interacting as much as his mates.

Either he was interacting the whole time or he went quiet and OP ignored it. Can't be both.

There's a third possibility - he went quiet but he was also interacting as much as his mates, because they were also quiet. Maybe because OP is right that she was "holding court" and dominating the conversation.

[Rosula]

@Conkersinautumn

He apologised but then took that all away by suggesting he thought he was right anyway. He's just going through the motions of apologising with no self.reflection at all. He's not worth the effort, he's more than jealous , he wants you to be cardboard cutout silence. He also expects that as he's done his performative apology all should be fine. Just leave this behind you.

Not sure that's correct. You can apologise for the way you convey your feelings and views without having to apologise for how you felt or what your view were.

[sunglassesonthetable]

Good for you being on top form and all the rest.

But I hate the phrase 'holding court' as it reminds me of being in the company of people 'holding court' and some of them at long boozy post rugby environments.

Those sort of days are a hotbed of trouble. Everyone is 'a bit' drunk or more. People get on a roll.

I find people holding court really boring/ tedious and even embarrassing. But that's still not flirting.

Honestly, I'm old enough to have done my fair share of shouting / berating and crying. And giving the silent treatment. I can not honestly say those are red flags for me.

Just him saying you're flirting. Why does he take holding court to be that? Either you were too full on or he is too jealous.

I'd give gorgeous another chance tbh but really I'd be on alert. He's used up his chances.

[5128gap]

@TaunterOfWomenInGeneralSaysSayonarastu

He didn't have an issue with OP being on superb form, he had an issue with his own jealousy & conviction that she was flirting.

Superb form/flirting... subjective terms and in the eye of the beholder. We weren't there, and even OP herself is having to ask on here if we think she was flirting. Which is impossible to say without witnessing body language/expressions etc. Whether she was or not isn't the point anyway. Flirty behaviour isnt a crime and doesnt warrant being shouted at.
OP behaved in a way she thought 'superb' he didn't like it and made her cry. Not really anywhere to go from there but in opposite directions.

[Chayngednayme]

Thanks for all your messages. Some hard to read because they are close to the bone (yes I am insecure and was overcompensating and probably showing off a little). Some really quite nasty (people claiming I was embarrassingly drunk and sad to watch - couldn’t be further from the truth; I managed to just be quick-witted at the same time as being knowledgeable about a range of sports for a sustainable length of time which the mates thought was v impressive and DB seemed to be quite proud of me at first (I am usually not quick witted at all).

I am really torn. I think the anger was a result of lots of booze and I have never seen the remotest sign of temper from him. But it was quite horrible. I also think I was completely fine for the entire day (despite some of the nastier descriptions on here) but should probably have reined it in for the last 45 mins or so when I realised he was withdrawing from the conversation - I still maintain I was not flirting but at that point it was clear he was not enjoying it and I can definitely see why.

I think it’s worth talking - I’ve just not been ready to yet because we have been really quite honest with each other to date and I think if I started to tell him I am worried he is showing red flag signs and have been seriously considering splitting with him but might give him one more chance then that pretty much kills it off anyway. I’ll need to play it more carefully. He is great in so many, many ways but he’s quite a bit more ‘alpha’ than my husband and past boyfriends so I am also in danger of being a little starry eyed over him and ignoring red flags. Oh jeez I really had forgotten how much drama and crap you get with dating……

[TaunterOfWomenInGeneralSaysSayonarastu]

I am really torn. I think the anger was a result of lots of booze and I have never seen the remotest sign of temper from him.
But you have now.
And it's only 5 months in.

I think if I started to tell him I am worried he is showing red flag signs and have been seriously considering splitting with him but might give him one more chance then that pretty much kills it off anyway. I’ll need to play it more carefully.
You've been dating for 5 months.
It should be easy & light, & no matter how short or long, NO relationship should need to be played carefully.

he’s quite a bit more ‘alpha’ than my husband and past boyfriends so I am also in danger of being a little starry eyed over him
WTF do you mean by alpha male?
Why would somebody being domineering & thinking they are superior to others make you starry eyed?

I think it’s worth talking
Talking won't change what he did.
It won't change his jealousy.
And it won't change his belief that you were flirting.

All talking will do is paper over the cracks until next time.

[Psychonabike]

@Chayngednayme

There's a lot of internalised misogyny on this thread. Women should be quiet recipients of conversation rather than dominate it? And the suggestion that a role reversal can be made here ignoring the centuries old power dynamic and the much more vulnerable position a woman is in during verbal aggression.

Only you really know whether you crossed a line or not.

But he only gets to decide whether he wants to be around this or not. He doesn't get to control or shape your behaviour -whatever it was. Same choice any of us have really.

I'm a bit concerned about this:

"I think it’s worth talking - I’ve just not been ready to yet because we have been really quite honest with each other to date and I think if I started to tell him I am worried he is showing red flag signs and have been seriously considering splitting with him but might give him one more chance then that pretty much kills it off anyway. I’ll need to play it more carefully."

Why play games at all? Why can't you say that given his comments about jealousy, then behaving as he did once he had isolated you from the situation, shouting at you until you cried, that you are concerned about repetition going forward? Are you so determined to play by some outdated notion of relationship rules that you are going to ignore your gut instinct and fail to set any boundaries here?