Will relocating solve our problems? Or just create new ones...

[RainbowRuby]

My partner moved here from the US in 2010 – we met shortly after and married. He never really adjusted to London or the UK, he feels lonely, like an outsider and all in all hopeless. On the face of it, our lives have progressed very well after a lot of struggle. Slowly moved up the ladder in our careers (after a lot of setbacks), managed to buy a flat in London, two gorgeous healthy kids and our latest ‘success’ has been moving out to a commuter town outside of London to our dream house, with great schools. However, behind closed doors, my partner’s feeling of loneliness and being a misfit in the UK has never eased and also recently been exacerbated by a highly toxic work environment. Now that all the visible ‘challenges’ are behind us – getting a house, moving up in our careers etc, this remains the elephant in the room that is getting harder to avoid. His depression (he is on medication/CBT) is getting worse. We/he have tried for years to move back to the US – but for some reason or the other it just hasn’t worked out. His desperation is heart-breaking. He doesn’t want to quit his job and just go to the US to look for a job (reasons being he is not comfortable with the financial instability that would bring), he has tried for years to secure a job from here but it seems to fizzle out in the last round (which has really damaged his self-confidence as well) and he feels we are too far deep in (have a house, both of us working, my parents live nearby). I feel so stuck – I want to ask him to quit his job and just go and we well follow. Am I being naïve to think if we move to a place where he feels he ‘belongs’ his mental health will improve? That we can just go out on a whim and find jobs and restart our lives at the age of 40? Our kids are 5 and 8.

Irony is - he has no family there but has lived there for 12 years and is the only place he felt 'home'.

The place where I feel most "home" is somewhere I didn't know anyone; before I went there for a job. I can't describe the feeling more than just saying that even though I couldn't speak much of the language, I got there and felt more at home than I ever have in my whole life.

I came back after two years for career reasons; and then met DH, and we've had a son. We've visited a few times since. I absolutely do see it through rose-tinted specs sometimes; it has its problems as anywhere does - but we're planning to move there, at least for a bit. I'm really grateful that DH is willing to try it. It'll be an experience if nothing else.

Your big issue here is that you don't know if it's his depression; and he'd be unhappy anywhere, or if it's here. And the honest answer is that he doesn't, either. You could get there and it could be a mistake and make no difference, or you could get there and he could feel better and you could wish you'd done it years ago.

I think you need to cast aside the irrelevant bits - like your parents moving closer to you - and possibly even the depression, and work out if you can make it work to go for a month or two. Not just him; all of you. Assess if you can make it work, if you'd want to. And then make the decision from there.

Otherwise you're forever going to wonder what if; or you're forever going to run around in circles trying to work out if it'd work without ever actually trying it. There's no way to know.

He has tried and continues to keep trying. One key challenge is that his specialty is very narrow in the UK, when he tries to diversify - they find someone cheaper and who has been doing it for longer, and the US don't want to wait for a 3 month notice for someone to join them. All these reasons/feedback given after he had cleared final rounds.

You have summarised my where my mind has been racing. If we move things could get worse, be the same or get better. If we stay - things will be as is- and at this point I'm really worried for him and his health. Maybe a new job will help (remove him from the current environment -which indeed is toxic as I am in a similar profession and can vouch for this) - but so far UK opportunities have yet to materialise.

I am a trailing spouse, the first time I left behind my home town and family, the second time my best friend and a small town for a large city.

In the end the city move was really hard for me, I had toddler Ds, became a sahm due to health reasons and could not make friends. I went to all the toddler groups, library story time, everything. It was very hard and I did suffer from depression because I was incredibly lonely. However, I realised that this, this right now is my life, and I should just make the most of it. Think happy thoughts, fake it till you make it sort of thing and I am sure there is a brain thing where if you wake up thinking this will be a great day your brain seeks out all the good things that happen.

I did come out of the fog and accepted that I couldn't go back and when I do visit my best mate the whole place has changed. What also helped was listing all the negative stuff from the old town like how long you had to drive to get to a B&Q. Little things but things that matter. Plus the good stuff from the new place, it is a city, there is everything I could possibly want, my children love it here, love their school, their friends, we are closer geographically to family which makes visits easier.

Ultimately, it was acceptance for me. Been here almost 20 years now.

I can relate to your DH on a smaller scale, I suppose. I'm not in a state of utter desperation but certainly in recent years life here hasn't been as exciting as rosy as it was in the beginning (we also arrived in 2010) and I do find myself drifting into thoughts that life could be better for all of us if we returned back home to the US. The difference is that I also have an American spouse who has struggled to secure employment to return "home", despite trying for years.

And of course "home" is a bit of a sticking point for both of us. The last place we called home in America (Texas) we both hated. There are limited opportunities in my hometown, and DH's entire family has all relocated to warmer parts of the South since we moved to the UK. So there's really no sense of an ideal "home" for either of us there either. It is terribly cliché, but you really cannot ever go home. Things change, that's just life. You can't expect it to be the same.

I am definitely taking a proactive approach to socialising for the past few months - he is prone to be an introvert but the increase in socialising definitely has positive impacts - even if it only lasts a day. Slow and steady.

Re his job, I think get him registered with an agency who specialises in his field to get them to find the jobs rather than him seeking them out.

If I read correctly, your spouse has struggled to secure employment back in the US? Our experience is the same - with the most common feedback being if you are in the US we would entertain you with an offer but we don't want to wait 3 months for your notice period.

What about joining a US company? I work for one and spend all my working day on calling with Americans.

Happiness rarely comes from a place.

There are stressors in some locations that can destroy happiness because people face violence and deprivation, but you aren’t living in one of those situations.

if you want to make the move though and think you could cover the bills solo at home, then why not save up some significant money to mitigate the risk of sending him ahead. It would be easier to do while he is still employed.

Yes I have no doubt (assuming careers transferable) that you could make this move and it could be very positive for all of you.
Please be careful though. I know somebody who spent years longing to move back ‘home‘ (in this case within the UK). This family did make the move to a lovely place exactly where they wanted, nice house, good schools etc. Unfortunately when the person realised that after making the dream move they still had the same old issues depression spiralled badly. The mindset of ‘this would be the thing that would make me happy’ is often an illusion and realising that it hasn’t can be very hard.

Why did he leave the US in the first place? Not because he was blissfully happy there. Was it because he felt discontented/out of place/frustrated there too?

If his "toxic" UK job is the problem, why doesn't he apply for new jobs here?

Coping with a depressed partner would be harder for you there; you 'll be in a different care "system" you're not familiar with; you won't have the family and social support you do here. Your kids will be in new schools , also needing more support. Now they'd have two stressed parents, instead of one.

and its hardly likely his depression will lift as he walks off the plane. He will still be depressed, friendless in a new place, trying to fit in at work among strangers.

Honestly I don't think his depression is about being in the UK (with a lovely home and family in a  good place) . I think the UK  is just a convenient  peg to  "justify " his  unhappiness; and if you moved,  you'd just be moving his problem  to a new venue.

3 month notice period plus moving in from overseas. That would be a huge barrier.

could he look for a contractor position, possibly remote? It might be easier to get one of those with his long notice period. then he can get to the us and yes, he will still essentially have another notice period, but he will be local and us companies are used to bringing in contractors.

This is my biggest fear. What if the realisation that all is not better (which I am very aware of) crushes him instead..

Possibly a route....in all honesty, best scenario would be if he was made redundant and he can go and explore. Issue is his current workplace would have to give a decent payout so likely not to make him redundant. They are however, trying to frustrate him and getting him to resign. Maybe when he is not working (regardless of how that scenario arises) it will be the opportunity for him to go and see things for himself again.

At that point in his life - he had visa issues there and came to the UK for business school. Those were sorted a year or so later. We didn't move back early in our marriage partly because of me - I wanted him to 'try' the UK and he did. Not sure if it was in hindsight one of my biggest mistakes or a the best decision (having to deal with his depression all alone with no support, potentially no job there, unfamiliar system). Not sure if we are living the mistake or have avoided it....

btw - so so thankful to each and everyone of you. Was able to speak about something so openly which I cannot share with anyone in this whole world in real life.

I notice you said upthread that you could afford to live on one income.

Perhaps a solution is for him to leave the toxic job, and take a sabbatical of a year to work on his depression, have treatment, try new things, do things he enjoys, maybe study, volunteer, spend more time with the kids and get well. Essentially take away the toxicity and the pressure, and allow him to find his path. He may discover something he loves. He may not, but time and space to breathe can work wonders.

As an American who suffers from depression, I would argue against moving. Your husband's problem is depression, not where he lives. Moving to the states isn't going to solve that. He would just find a new focus for the depression (the job's not good, the house isn't right, the salary is too low, etc.)

He needs a very good psychiatrist to work with him with meds and therapy. You said he's getting that, but it obviously isn't working. Exploring new meds, different dosages, different types of therapy with a new psyche is where I would start.

I think I would go if I felt that it would work for me and the kids regardless of whether or not it helped DH's depression.
My baseline assumption would be that it wouldn't particularly help the depression.
If it works for you and dc regardless of DH then give it a go.
If you would just be doing it in the hope it helped DH I would stay.

Definitely something we discuss and I think he should consider. He has a massive fear of being 'unemployed' - but hope I can convince him his worth to us (and him) is nothing to do with brining in money.

For your info rather than for him (because I agree that he probably needs professional intervention), the Laurie Santos ‘Happiness Lab’ is an interesting and pretty listenable podcast. It’s made me think a lot.

How about you? Do you wish to live in the states.I think depression very often seems as though it will vanish overnight if you move/get a new job and so on.If you go there and he is still not happy you and DC will be far from home in a difficult position. Think carefully .Maybe he could look for ex pat groups here(must be links online I should think) .It could be a mid life crisis,quite common around this age .

Thank you for this. You are right. With this condition, reassessing what is working is an ongoing process.

OP _ I'm going to give you. a 'don't move' perspective.

I moved a year ago with a 7 and 9 year old to a city I had wanted to live in for 20 years - and you know what - I'm exactly the same person here as I was in London. I have the same amount of sadness/ worry/ anxiety as I had in London. Literally nothing is different mentally for me at all!

It's actually a comical life lesson - but the risk was much less for me than it is for you. I am 2 hours from my old home and family - I can visit them for a weekend - and I still cried daily for months when I realised what a big change it was moving cities.

I do not think I am at all happier - I am however reasonably happy as I like where we moved to! I'm very sociable and have made friends.

I will tell you this absolute truth - if your husband has been unhappy for several years - moving will do NOTHING to change that. Happiness is an inside job.

this is all about him - what about you and your parents? What about your kids growing up in America far from family and where there are gun drills daily?

He is idealising this 'outside' solution to his internal mental problems

If he struggles socially here he will struggle there believe me

The saying - whereever you go - there you are.

ie. you will be taking yourself with you