Will relocating solve our problems? Or just create new ones...

[RainbowRuby]

My partner moved here from the US in 2010 – we met shortly after and married. He never really adjusted to London or the UK, he feels lonely, like an outsider and all in all hopeless. On the face of it, our lives have progressed very well after a lot of struggle. Slowly moved up the ladder in our careers (after a lot of setbacks), managed to buy a flat in London, two gorgeous healthy kids and our latest ‘success’ has been moving out to a commuter town outside of London to our dream house, with great schools. However, behind closed doors, my partner’s feeling of loneliness and being a misfit in the UK has never eased and also recently been exacerbated by a highly toxic work environment. Now that all the visible ‘challenges’ are behind us – getting a house, moving up in our careers etc, this remains the elephant in the room that is getting harder to avoid. His depression (he is on medication/CBT) is getting worse. We/he have tried for years to move back to the US – but for some reason or the other it just hasn’t worked out. His desperation is heart-breaking. He doesn’t want to quit his job and just go to the US to look for a job (reasons being he is not comfortable with the financial instability that would bring), he has tried for years to secure a job from here but it seems to fizzle out in the last round (which has really damaged his self-confidence as well) and he feels we are too far deep in (have a house, both of us working, my parents live nearby). I feel so stuck – I want to ask him to quit his job and just go and we well follow. Am I being naïve to think if we move to a place where he feels he ‘belongs’ his mental health will improve? That we can just go out on a whim and find jobs and restart our lives at the age of 40? Our kids are 5 and 8.

What does "living a lie" even mean though? Are those his words?

It's very sad that he doesn't find any joy, happiness or even contentment in his children or in his relationship with you! Wherever you happen to be at the moment.

It feels like you're not part of a community or don't seem to be part of a group of friends here. Do you have a network around you? A church/religion or community group or hobby? That might help with your feeling of isolation.
I don't think moving will help if that's the case. You'll have to start from scratch again. Could you work on engaging more with your local community? Both you and your DCs could see the benefits of this. It sounds like you've got in a rut

I moved back to the UK from Asia last year, having spent 12 years there. Overall it's been positive and I didnt exactly idealise the UK, but my perception of what my life would be like back here was way off. It's as though in imagining life back in then UK, my brain couldn't compute that since I left I'd had 2 kids and so have most of my friends, plus the tight little London gan is now spread out all over the home counties and beyond. I dont even live in London anymore. The carefree, early 30's DINKY lifestyle in the riverside apartment with only myself to worry about is firmly past tense. To be clear, I KNEW this wouldn't be what it was like but my "emotional brain" believed it would be and longed for it. Not sure if that makes sense. So I see where your DH is coming from, but he needs to really understand what he's going back to.

PS Having been totally down on where I was in Asia since start of covid (Quote: "If I never come back here it will be too soon" , I now really miss it and am really looking forward to visiting in 2 weeks. Go figure :-)

Obviously people can move to a different country in their 40s with children - many do, and love it, especially where one partner is from there.

BUT. Your partner chose to leave the US, presumably because he wasn't living the life of his dreams there. He has lived in the UK for many years without feeling socially integrated - why is that? It isn't because he is American. It may just be an aspect of his personality. He may be reluctant to move back to the US because, in the same way that all your other successes haven't made him happy, he knows that moving "home" also will not do so. So I would listen carefully to his reasons for not doing as you have suggested and just going for it - I would also consider his much of his unhappiness is genuinely related to where you live.

Wanted Down Under is a tv programme whereby families spend a week in Australia or New Zealand. They consider things such as potential employment, wages, food costs, housing costs and availability, reaction from families etc and then make a decesion at the end whether to emigrate or stay. It may be a good way to assess

To be honest - I think your husbands needs to address his depression first.
life in the IS now might not be the same as back then
life as a married father of two is not the same as back then

as you know, there are loads of Americans in London, loads of people of Pakistani origin (be that from Pakistan, the US, or British), as well as every other nationality, religion and skin colour you can think of - so it cannot just be the cultural fit

I have lived in the both the UK and the US, and I am struck by just how different the countries and people are. For two countries that speak the same language, they are so so different. I'm not surprised your husband feels like he doesn't fit in here. I never fitted in in the US, although I still love visiting. The social cues, workplaces, friendships, frames of reference etc are all different. If I were in your shoes, I'd have to feel very sure that a move there would be the only thing to cure my husband's depression. Even then I wouldn't do it until my children had left school.

"He is so so miserable and now I feel there is nothing practical left to 'fix'....."

That's because there are no practical fixes to depression. He needs treatment, and to take ownership of his own recovery. You can't "fix" the condition away.

@SuseB thank you so much for your comment. You have hit the nail on the head - his depression really does always have a 'focus'. If think back on the various focus points, it has been 'salary being too low', lack of promotion, resolving issues with his parents (history of emotional/financial abuse there), toxic environment at work, feeling suffocated in London (overcrowded/polluted). All of these have some truth to it, and many of them have materialised (salary corrections, promotion finally took place, improving relationship with parents) but his focus and obsession with these issues are disproportionate. The area we have moved to outside of London has a very good community, green, clean and very friendly. When we socialise with our neighbours and the community - he definitely is happier and acknowledges it. Some days he says he feels more at home here vs when we were in London. He definitely tries hard, therapy, medication, long walks, meditation. But other days his messages are 'I have no future and will always be a misfit. Its not your fault. My life was meant to be like this - where I belong nowhere.' I'm crying as I type this.

life as a married father of two is not the same as back then.

I think this is really important. Sometimes we mistake longing for a time for longing for a place. It's interesting to see many posters on other threads longing for the nineties as it was "better". It wasn't better. It was just we were young and were like "Three year recession? the Asia Crisis? Care factor zero. Gotta get down Top Shop sale. Can I have a tenner? Byeee"

So often how we perceive a place is tied up with our perceptions of a more carefree life stage.

I do think that my dc will have more opportunities in the USA than a post Brexit UK OP.
But your dc already have US passports so can exercise those opportunities whenever they want in the future.
My dc need to move through the non immigrant/green card/ then citizenship route if they want those benefits.
There are significant educational costs to raising dc in the USA particularly through college.

Moving countries is great but very hard work and emotionally stressful. I can't see it solving mental health issues.

Has he considered moving jobs in the UK? Or making a hobby into a paying job? Or moving to another city in the UK where the vibe is less frenetic? (London isn't the be all and end all).

Don't think I would be too impressed if I were your parents, who you moved closer to you and then you go off to America

Is there somewhere in the UK with a large American expat community that you could move to? It would have the benefits of being with people he feels more comfortable with without moving continents.

3 points.

Schooling costs if you want a good education, so does health care.

If anything race relations are worse and I think uk Pakistani communities are more accepted in most places and also not seen as black.

Your parents especially if you moved them closer to you.

If his current work is highly toxic and he's struggling to find a job in the US maybe something that would help and would be far simpler would be to look for a new job here.

Like many people have already said, I don't think moving to the States will help your husband. It's a place he's lived only a quarter of his life in, had experiences bad enough to give him PTSD and has no family in. The fact that he views this place as his 'home' despite these factors suggests to me what he really wants is to 'escape' from his current life and he has projected that desire onto this place, perhaps because it's on the opposite side of the world. It represents a complete break from his current life, but it's not really about the U.S. per sé. I really think your husband needs treatment for his depression. If you do move to the States, it is possible for things to get far worse for him with all the stresses of relocation, being away from your support network in the UK, the crashing realisation that this wasn't really the solution and now you're in too deep, etc.

Oh yeah - that will be different thread 😓

It's easy to blame it all on something big and outside of our control isn't it.

In parallel, my DH was "depressed" for years over leaving a (nearly impossible to succeed in) career path. I'd like to say he finally woke up and realised he was pissing his life away being miserable about something he can't control, but it was very gradual over the years and I'd say it now very rarely crosses his mind and he is fairly happy with his life most of the time.

I do still want to gag him when he brings it up, it's been decades now and my view is either it's important enough to take a proper stab at or it's just an excuse to avoid doing anything of value or face any fears or grow up etc. Interestingly once I stoppped pandering, errrrr "supporting" him with his depressed views, he did start to improve.

We all have hopes and dreams that die, it's no reason to give up on life or make ourselves and our families miserable for ever. We have to find new dreams to work towards.

I don’t think this would be a perfect fix, if you get there and he can’t get a job he will be depressed because of that, when he does get a job if he’s not perfect he will be depressed because of the pressure of moving everyone. Is this actually what is best for you and your children? Has he tried a career change in the uk?

You are twisting yourself into knots to help him not be depressed. What if he is just depressed? That won't be much fun miles from home and jobless, paying for healthcare, trying to settle the kids into new schools - and unable to return to the UK, if he wants to keep the kids there. I would not think of doing it - the risks for you are huge.

This. This is what devastates me. He 'says' he loves the kids, me and wants to provide them the best. He says he doesn't want to move because he sees how happy they are and that they are thriving. But I see how miserable he still is - in spite of that. He says he is 'happy' with 'us' but he isn't happy. I cannot describe in words the sadness I feel when things go quiet and I can't block out this thought anymore.

@RainbowRuby I'm both pleased and sorry that my comment has resonated so much with you. It is hard to live with someone who is prone to depression, but over the years I have come to see it as something that is chronic and ongoing rather than an emergency - as in, drastic measures aren't needed, it's an accumulation of small things that help. These days DH is mostly in a good place and can adjust his meds up and down depending on how he feels. Things that really help him are things to look forward to - for us, this is cheap breaks away in the UK where we can get out walking and visit castles and gardens etc - so I get a few in the calendar every January. He also works a 4-day compressed hours week so his weekend is longer and he can recharge. Getting enough sleep is key, as is getting outside. He also benefits massively from volunteering and helping our elderly neighbours, and hanging out with friends and family in very low-key ways, though he hates big social occasions. I really recommend Dr Rangan Chatterjee's books about stress, wellbeing etc - DH has found them very helpful and holistic, but also doable. Best of luck.

Can I ask how you stopped 'pandering' him? Possibly something I can learn from..

my dad is a psychotherapist and he says moving doesn't solve problems as you take yourself with you! I would say that I have seen that born out in situations I know about. obviously can't be true in every situation but it is food for thought