Are junior docs really only on £14.09 per hour?

[yawningmorning]

That is so low.

I've seen the headline that you can earn more per hour working in pret.

No wonder they are striking.

Why not? Pret is only an example, there are numerous other better paid jobs open to them.

It gets my backing educated doctors should be paid more or as many are doing we will lose doctors to Australia etc where they get paid more. Furthermore I was in hospital outpatients spoke to a junior having to pay the same price we do for coffee surprised to find they didn’t have some free coffee etc. it’s not fair they work bloody hard get a lot of debt training. We should stop charging them to train with the caveat they have to stay in the nhs for so many years .

@Oakorn

Good point. First year out of university most jobs don't pay well, you haven't proven yourself and many roles, not just doctors, require first exams so studying in your own time. Doctors are paid comparably to other stem graduates with 4 year degrees (I know medicine is 5) and have substantial annual increases not including any inflationary pay deal.

Two recent stem graduates, plus a third in dsd's bf, so I'm very aware of pay on offer

British people: acting like it should be a race to the bottom, and then complaining that standards of living are in the toilet.

Yes there are better paid jobs open to doctors. Working in pret isn't one of them because working in pret clearly pays much less over even the medium term and doesn't have the same employment benefits. It's so disingenuous to pretend that anyone would actually be 'better off' working in pret than having a career in medicine.

Right wing idiot. And you really are I was in hospital it was mega busy shortage of doctors as it is so yes let’s see the brain drain to Australia etc. see where we all are with no doctors

Utter rubbish. DD got tenA GCSEs, five A grade A levels (pre A) and a 2:1 and PGCE from Oxford. She is an outstandingly good teacher and her students achieve excellent grades. There are many excellent teachers with a similar background in the schools she has taught in.

Codswallop. There is no magic formula to being a good teacher.

A lot of people don’t realise that junior doctors are that for nearly ten years I heard the doctors say this on the radio.

DS1 is in the army, he’s been in around 9 years and is on around £37k. Yes, he works really, really hard, his hours are long and he goes away a lot. When he’s away he gets more money. He does have A levels but he’s a NCO so his job is in no way comparable to a doctor’s. £39k is a very poor wage, imo, for what they do.

They don't earn this salary for those 10 years, though - or even beyond the first year of it. Again, it's misleading to tell people that this is what 'junior doctors' earn and that they're junior doctors for nearly a decade. Both are true(ish) but they're not true when put together like that.

The issue is places not salary, there are many people wanting to be doctors with very competitive places.

Lawyers may work in public sector if they coose to, and they would be salaried. Barristers are self-emplyed and have unlimited potential earnings

If NHS doctors don’t do private work, who does it?

I think a lot of people are under the misconception that there are NHS doctors and private ones. Doctors often do both.

if you stop them, chances are they’ll vote with their feet. So it’s not a very well thought out idea.

Junior doctors are not trainees. A registrar is a junior doctor.

They should definitely be paid more. And they shouldn't have to pay their own professional fees.

The pret headline probably isn't the best way to get the message out but the long and short of it is that in real terms doctors are paid significantly less than equivalent posts 10-15 years ago.

That is not fair and is a disproportionately low salary for the professional posts they hold.

It is only right that this is corrected.

What the hell were we all doing clapping every Thursday for?!

I don't think focusing on doctors pay is very helpful.

For one it will alienate lots of lower paid people and also because it doesn't seem vastly out of step with other professions. Most importantly I don't think another £10k a year would make a massive difference to the retention crisis. Obviously it would be nice, and we should have decent payscales that ensure doctors are being paid fairly but it won't really solve the retention issue.

The issue is one of working conditions, training practices, hours and practicalities. That is what will really make a difference.

Why are teachers even being discussed here... teaching is an important job, but in no way does it compare to being responsible for if someone lives or dies???? Literally two separate discussions no?

Also the people being like 'it's still a good wage, they knew what they signed up for' - Do you know how much people earn in tech companies for jobs with much much less training and responsibility? It is not a 'good wage'. The Tories have done a great job at dividing everyone but the careful cultivation of resentment and disgust at anyone earning over 30k is truly one of their triumphs.

Why don't you listen to what junior doctors are asking for before you decide what would and wouldn't work?

Barristers are self-employed and work from chambers. They are instructed by lawyers/solicitors acting on behalf of their clients.
Lawyers are largely salaried in whichever sector they choose to work in.

I did the maths on the Pret comparison yesterday.

Compared to working in Pret from age 18, a doctor, starting university will be around 32 years old by the time they have earned the same amount, that's before taking student loan debt and replayments and professional expenses into account.

Well dry your eyes, they have a lot more career progression than working at pret and basically have tenure because even when they’ve made huge cock ups they are very unlikely to get struck off by the GMC.

Also a lot of people who want to live are about to have their lives prematurely ended by todays strikes which if they collaborated to cause would be called mass murder but because it’s a strike no one’s going to talk about it.

Like the statistic last week that 500 people at least died because of ambulance strikes that didn’t get much press attention or calls for corporate manslaughter or anything like that because the liberal media associates so closely with the Left that even their pet dogs wear flat caps & belong to unions.

It’s the working conditions they need to address, the 12 per shifts are antiquated and they should be on similar working hours to airline pilots not working 60 hour weeks which few of us would like to do.

@yawningmorning YES they are on £14.09 an hour. And conditions are awful. I'll not read the thread as I'm v sure it will contain people saying they don't deserve more, are lazy and should just leave. But yes, £14.09 to save your life.

39k is a pittance for a doctor after 7 years of training.

This pearl clutching horror about people who earn more than 30k is nauseating.

Oh do one, calling me rightwing that's a new one 😂.

Fyi if everyone went on strike I'm my sector the doctors would not be able to do their job fullstop. So stop with the all hail jnr doctors for a payrise and stroke their egos or you won't get treated bullshit it's old.