To wonder what part of this statement reminded Gary L of Nazi Germany?

[marmaladeo]

This is Suella Braverman's statement Gary Lineker was reacting to when he said "This is just an immeasurably cruel policy directed at the most vulnerable people in language that is not dissimilar to that used by Germany in the 30s" ... twitter.com/GaryLineker/status/1633094764865126400

If she was saying she wanted to stop immigration I could understand GL's reaction. But she's not. I don't understand why anyone would not want to "stop the boats" when 1. they're lethal and 2. they're being run by criminal gangs. If GL had made it clear he wanted to stop the boats but thought this policy was the wrong way to do it, then fine. But he didn't - he just made an extremely inflammatory statement. He might be getting lots of love from some quarters, but personally I think he's an egotist who is playing into the hands of the people smugglers.

I asked is this figure correct and quoted stat

Which was relevant to your point

How do you think the Jewish population in Germany got turned against?
How neighbours turned on neighbours?
How German soldiers were able to do what they did to the Jewish population?

Hate towards another group doesn't just happen. It needs to be fostered. It needs people to see another group as less worthy, so we don't treat them as we would expect to be treated.

You don't know me or the situations I have had to deal with in my life

Regardless, it's absolutely zero excuse for willful ignorance, or spreading hate and baseless propaganda (parroted from the DM, GB News or wherever you pick it up) on a public forum.

Unfun fact quiz - can anyone remember the last time that immigrants to a supposed “first world” country were not only demonised and dehumanised with language, but forced into internment camps for years? It’s just within living memory.

Well you seem extremely confident in your knowledge. I tend the think (not know because I don’t presume to know a strangers intentions as you do) that he (and the holocaust survivor who said the same thing) mean exactly what they said.

i find it odd and pretty presumptuous that you’d claim to know what someone you don’t know meant by their words and ascribe intent and meaning that they haven’t said to suit your own agenda.

I asked is this figure correct and quoted stat

Bit worrying that you need to ask a stranger on the internet if a published stat is correct or not.

Work it out for yourself

I think some people are not seeing what it is because they are looking at only 1 issue. It's is not only "stop the boats". It is continuing push against immigrants and anyone "other".
It started years ago, referendum opened gates for many normally unpalatable opinions and actions, then they added bit there, bot over there and now this.

Again, coupled with current economic issues (that is why the ideas caught up well in Germany that time as well), the blame and invitation for open hate of immigrants no matter what education and how they got here, just to move blame for the decline of UK from leaders...

I had so many arguments about free houses for all immigrants, it's mind boggling. Or the "taking all the scarce resources". Why do people think the resources are getting scarcer. (No one is getting anything free really and resources are scarcer because it shite work and people are leaving it....)

In essence, immigrants, asylum seekers and everyone who doesn't fit as "western european" is being scapegoated to get blame for government's austerity results. As I said. Wait for next year when it will show what they did with the latest bills around break up from EU, how much that will cost and where will the money be coming from. Hint. The vulnerable. But it will of course be the fault of immigrants. We are the current folk devil. Like single mothers were (taking all benefits and having kids on purpose for benefits).
We are nearly on the last step of the latest folk devil creation. (Or more like recreation since immigration is repeated in circles)

If you repeat something continuously and with enough conviction, people will believe it at the end. So by next GE a lot of people will be fully convinced it's not austerity results, it's them bloody immigrants and asylum seekers

If that makes sense

Really? This is the level.. crikey

But can you see that you’ve misunderstood the figures now I’ve found the information for you?

Speaking of Brexit - one side of the debate was allowed to use dehumanising language (“swarms” for eg) and tell outright lies (80 million people from Turkey will pour into the UK) and rely on a massive Russian funded disinformation campaign, while the other side stuck to very boring facts and gets told off for sometimes calling people “thick”.

Now, calling people thick isn’t acceptable, but neither is lying about and demonising immigrants. One of those things seems much worse to me than the other, but as ever the “left” is held to higher standards - you must debate politely. You must not insult. You must understand the other person’s point of view, even when that other person is ranting at you that an entire (and huge) group of people are rapists and criminals. Where’s the decency and politeness on their side?

@Janiie
“lapping up”
”get back in his box”
“biley comments”
this is the type of inflammatory language which I’m talking about. It really isn’t helping to make your point. It’s the type of language used by the tabloids and if you want to enter into a sensible discussion throwing these phrases into the mix isn’t helping. Just a word of advice!

That makes perfect sense @IHaveaSetOfVeryParticularSkills

You might have missed my question so I’ll ask again - what do those figures mean please? What’s the relevance to this discussion @MarshaBradyo ?

On the subject of the Daily Mail I would like to share one of its headlines from the 1930s.

"Hurrah for the Blackshirts".

I can't explain what similarity made me think of it.

And no Government Minister or the Tory MP on Laura Kuennsburg's show was asked about the language being used.

They were asked about Lineker. But not asked about the style of the language being used.

They could have shown a clip of the Holocaust survivor challenging the Home Secretary about her comments.

She is asked about the language used and she won't apologise for it.

It is very disrespectful to the Jewish community, GL's comments belittle their suffering in the Holocaust. An MP recently lost his place in the Conservative Party for simply quoting a leading Israeli scientist who declared the covid19 vaccine rollout the greatest crime against humanity since the Holocaust. Linekar has gone much further. I don't see how media who attacked that MP can now support Linekar.

It’s related to the flow of posts below

I posted this stat to question a post re women and men arriving on boats

‘Overall, males represented 87% of small boat arrivals in 2022.’

To which people responded that’s propaganda

So I’ve posted the full text to show context and I am asking why people feel a gov site with information and stats is propaganda

I really hope you don’t say I’m not answering again as I’m not sure how else to say it, genuinely not being sarky

'this is the type of inflammatory language which I’m talking about. It really isn’t helping to make your point. It’s the type of language used by the tabloids'

You need to read the thread. Glib, sarcastic language has been used throughout. Are you suggesting supporters of Gary can mock all they like but those objecting must adhere to some strict kind of code? I would kindly suggest that saying he needs to get back in his box is not remotely 'inflammatory'.

thank you - I guess my question is (and forgive the phraseology but it’s something my research supervisor used a lot) “so what?”

why does it matter what the sex-demographics of the people arriving in small boats are?

Exactly.

Because a poster said something that wasn’t correct so I posted a stat to show the correct information

If you scroll back you’ll see where I first mentioned it.

It was in response to a misleading post

You're still not getting it are you?! I'm not a huge fan of GL but I can categorically see he was not belittling the Jewish community - he was drawing parallels on how Germany, in the years leading up to the holocaust, actually arrived in those circumstances. A 'warning from history', as the saying (and documentary) goes.

And if you're drawing comparisons between a COVID vaccine, designed to save millions of lives, with the holocaust then you're clearly too far gone now.

@AlisonJo Do you think the Auschwitz museums statement here on language is disrespectful? I think what I’m asking is - would the words Lineker used be more acceptable if they’d come from an official body for eg?

People jump straight to Nazi Germany and forget there was a deliberate,active and very aggressive (public and government funded)campaign against Jews for a long time before that.
Posters,films, comics, speeches etc all with one purpose and one target. It worked extremely well. Of course it did as it's a tactic that has been used for centuries before and on smaller scales years after that as well.

In fact, most atrocities against various groups of people throughout history have started like that(colonisation, dictatorships, crusades, witch trials,wars, slavery and lack of rights , ww2, communism and so on) Dehumanising, othering, finger pointing, assigning blame.

Just because we pretend to be more civilised now and it doesn't end in mass murder it doesn't mean that those tactics aren't used now, aren't just as effective or damaging .

Just because I didn't kill you with a punch, it doesn't mean I haven't harmed you.

Are you actually Jewish or just a self-appointed spokesperson? Have you told the Holocaust survivor who said the same thing that she’s being disrespectful? What about the multiple Jewish posters on this thread who agree with GL?

as to your questions. Perhaps read what has actually been said (no one has mentioned the holocaust or Nazis for a start) then come back and explain how the language used is dissimilar. Then you’ll have a relevant and informed point of view to discuss

People jump straight to Nazi Germany and forget there was a deliberate,active and very aggressive (public and government funded)campaign against Jews for a long time before that.
Posters,films, comics, speeches etc all with one purpose and one target. It worked extremely well. Of course it did as it's a tactic that has been used for centuries before and on smaller scales years after that as well.

Yes!