To tell you that a newly qualified doctor only earns £29k?

[Drstrike]

Doctors now leave medical school after 5/6 gruelling years of study - with £85k of student debt.

First year post-qualification is £29k, rising to £33k the following year. Then things stagnate around £40k whilst in specialty training.

The first year post-qualification is more supervised. But you are still the first doctor to be bleeped if one of your ward patients starts bleeding post-op, falls and hits their head, has chest pain etc. and you are the one to initiate management then contact your consultant to let them know. You are still covering wards overnight with seniors at a distance. You are still prescribing medications, ordering scans involving radiation, explaining plans to patients and families. You are still a fully qualified doctor - just not with full registration.

This salary is based on a 40-48 hour full time week depending on rota. That means you can be "part time" working 40hrs a week in a job like surgery.

It takes 5/6 years of medical school, 2 years of foundation training, 3 years of core training and 3 years of higher specialty training to become a consultant. That's a commitment of 13 years, generally from the age of 18.

During this time doctors have to pay for their own progression exams (£500-£1000 each).

There are out of hours premia for nights/weekends on top, but in specialties like psychiatry and GP only basic is earnt.

Does this shock you?

I agree 100%, @Dancingdoggo

There's so much begrudgery.

And the entire set up is so short-sighted.

Maybe it's time that people paid for their healthcare and there would be more doctors, shorter waiting times, better equipment etc.

Why would you think you are worth less with presumably 4 years at university and 10 years doing the job?

All of which nurses do for far less.

Yes. People like to begrudge others things they don’t have. They think they are making a moral point. What they don’t realise is that conditions and pay habe to be sufficient for people to do the job. If they aren’t, then people leave.

But they can’t connect the impact of them begrudging higher pay than they get, to consequences for the medical or schooling services available to them.

People read the click-bait headlines about how much a top surgeon gets or how much a Head teacher or a tiny proportion of teachers get, which are put next to average wages, and feel outraged rather than thinking about what the real issues are.

The media are shit at reporting what the real issues are with funding and resourcing for vital public services and the consequences for patients and children now and in the future. And people can’t see past the attention-grabbing headline to think about the wider issues and long term consequences. They can only think about right now. It’s what politicians rely on.

Nurses give cancer diagnoses? I really hope not. My late DH's specialist nurse was wonderful after he had his diagnosis, but it should absolutely be a doctor's job to give the diagnosis.

My DD is a nurse and I'm very proud of her. And yes, there's some overlap of procedures that both a nurse and doctor do. But she'd be the first to say that a doctor has a ton more responsibilty that she absolutely would not want or to be paid for.

Exactly.

My DH's cousins were all in underpaid public sector jobs here. Now they all do the same jobs in Australia, and last heard, were on close to double their UK salary.

So you are smug as well as stupid. I highly doubt that you are very successful if you think £29k is great salary but hey you can be whoever you want to be online can't you.

I’m a junior doctor. I have 8 years of experience and I’m currently completing my speciality training to be a GP. I work part time which is 28 hours a week scheduled but in reality I work about 30-32 hours patient facing. Outside this I have my professional development commitment, portfolio requirements to meet and exams to prepare for. I earn about 28,000 a year depending on my exact post so about £19 an hour. Out of my salary I then need to cover my GMC fees and my indemnity insurance as well as courses and exams (some courses are covered by study budget but this is limited). This year I have paid out nearly £750 in exam fees alone, that’s without the associated equipment and course costs.

Speaking to my colleagues it is how undervalued we feel and that our pay has been so stagnant. My pay is worth around 25% less than it was when I started medical school in 2009. This is the same for lots of public sector workers and we are now reaching breaking point. You can be a junior doctor for over 10 years and in that time you are essentially moved from department or even hospital every 4-6 months. I have never worked in the same role for more than 6 months since graduating. I struggle to find good and robust childcare to cover my needs which is the main reason I’m part time. Not many nurseries have the flexibility of me changing my days with each role let alone each week, nights etc. My friend is due to work at a hospital 2 hours away from her current one soon, she is having to move her child’s nursery as a result. This is not unique to medicine of course but is just one of the difficulties we face. There is then the amount of pressure we are under each day due to patient demand and staff shortages (again not unique to doctors). I often don’t get a chance to eat or even go to the loo during my shifts. My own health is poor, both mental and physical. Suicide rates among doctors are rising and higher than the background population. Our needs come second to our patients.

I have never felt so demoralised but more than that I’m scared- the nhs really is in a terrible state and everyday I am trying to do my best for my patients in an underfunded system. Will a pay increase magically fix all that is wrong- no but something has to give and as there are not going to magically be extra staff overnight so keeping the staff you do have is vital

Am I paid well compared to the general population - yes but does my pay fairly reflect my training, skills and the sacrifices I have made over the years- in my opinion No.

I teach in a private school and many of the parents there are doctors with two or more children going through the school. The majority drive BMWs or Mercs, so after a few years they are clearly being very well paid.

29k is not a great salary but it is a good salary for someone just starting work.
Everyone thinks they should be paid more. But everyone can't be paid more.

This. There are so, so many other countries whereby you pay medical insurance and then a premium upon services rendered (NOT America - talking about more South Korea, Singapore etc). We are failing in this country because we are essentially charging "insurance" but with no additional small fees for anything other than dental care.

I know a few doctors who have chosen to work as agency doctors ( but are working for the NHS). They are earning serious money.

However if you went into being a doctor for the money I would be extremely worried because it is entirely the wrong incentive

its a job at the end of the day isn't it, people generally work in exchange for money so of course its an incentive ffs. Let's stop martyring medics and assuming they should all be there as its their calling and they do it for the glow they get from helping people. Its also about money and that's fine.

It's a rubbish salary for so much graft.

BUT.... no-one makes you do it.

If it doesn't suit you, do something else!!

There are a lot of jobs, that pay huge salaries, that most people assume are low salaries. Taxi drivers, joiners, hair dressers, beauty therapists, can all take home WAY more than nurses, police, teachers.

I work for myself doing something very menial. I earn almost double my DH who is in a highly professional, highly respected role.

Jobs that are vital to the health and wellbeing of the people, or the education and development of our society, are simply not worth doing.

You are far better off of you can pout and show your bare ass cheeks on Instagram, or perhaps if you can film yourself winning at Minecraft and post it to YouTube. They are todays real skills, so get with the programme…and you don’t need £85,000 worth of debt to get there either.

When there are no doctors, nurses, teachers, care workers, shelf stackers, bin men, social workers etc because everyone is fluttering their eyelashes or flexing their muscles in front of a phone camera, we’ll finally realise the actual value of the different roles in society.

But hey-ho.

Thank you and all the others, for taking up your profession.
I have three daughters, one in education, another in finance and the third in the medical sector. I know which one I would want if I was ill but it doesn’t seem right that one of her sisters earns at least 5 x more and would be no good at either of the other two social jobs, which everyone needs at one time or another.

Actually 29K a year is a great salary for a lot of people, if you cant see that then your the smug ass. Never said it was compared to myself and no I don`t need to prove anything to someone like you 😚

As you say whoever you want to be online can't you, so I see you decided to be a complete an utter bore, i would say more but that would just be a compliment 😂trot along....🐎

Eloquently put.
👏

Whilst I wouldn't say a binman should earn the same as a doctor (much more training/aptitude required in the latter) they're still pretty underpaid considering it's consistently in the top few most dangerous jobs. Biggest threat being impatient drivers mounting kerb to drive around truck and then hiring the loaders operating the controls at side of the truck.

People have a pretty rubbish (pun intended) attitude to waste collection staff. Every thread on here has people moaning about the truck not pulling over to let cars past despite people repeatedly explaining that they do this on purpose as they don't want their loaders playing dodge the car as they pull the bins across the road.

Hitting not hiring

I've been a nurse for 19 years. Still on £30k. Seems a reasonable wage to start as a newly qualified dr.

I think all doctors should only pay 3 of their 5 year course
30k is a fair starting salary as the juniors need a lot of support ( will also be higher in London)
however once doctors can work more autonomously after 3/4 years there should be a much bigger leap in salary - it’s too long to wait until consultant level for rewards
this will incentivise doctors who stick with the job a few years

Maybe if you left school with no qualifications. Not after A-levels, degree, masters etc.

You just troll these boards and berate any public service worker.

@Florenz nope. Australia has Medicare. Paid for via an insurance system but is free if low paid. Costs less in insurance than we pay towards NHS. And you get to see a doctor in days. Not months/years.