To tell you that a newly qualified doctor only earns £29k?

[Drstrike]

Doctors now leave medical school after 5/6 gruelling years of study - with £85k of student debt.

First year post-qualification is £29k, rising to £33k the following year. Then things stagnate around £40k whilst in specialty training.

The first year post-qualification is more supervised. But you are still the first doctor to be bleeped if one of your ward patients starts bleeding post-op, falls and hits their head, has chest pain etc. and you are the one to initiate management then contact your consultant to let them know. You are still covering wards overnight with seniors at a distance. You are still prescribing medications, ordering scans involving radiation, explaining plans to patients and families. You are still a fully qualified doctor - just not with full registration.

This salary is based on a 40-48 hour full time week depending on rota. That means you can be "part time" working 40hrs a week in a job like surgery.

It takes 5/6 years of medical school, 2 years of foundation training, 3 years of core training and 3 years of higher specialty training to become a consultant. That's a commitment of 13 years, generally from the age of 18.

During this time doctors have to pay for their own progression exams (£500-£1000 each).

There are out of hours premia for nights/weekends on top, but in specialties like psychiatry and GP only basic is earnt.

Does this shock you?

Completely incorrect, my son is a 3rd year medical student and can not, however my sister in law first year nursing can. Whether these rules are different across different universities as my sons also frowns on part time work.

The upshot is that the workload that and I her brother (both solicitors) think is entirely normal, she would think is intolerable.

@Bunpea I'm pretty sure that as a solicitor, you don't turn up to work not knowing what is waiting for you in the office or what you'll end up dealing with before your long day is over. I'm also pretty sure you won't be left running on adrenaline a lot of the time, and you're never dealing with situations where you're the only person standing between a patient and death.

Not quite that straightforward £40k after 4 years working, 5 years degree and the 4 years previously gaining top notch GCSE’s and A level grades, so really 13 years and all of which are non negotiable.

Well said. When we’re I’ll, in despair, terrified, you’d give anything to know the doctor who sees you is well trained, well rested, and able to treat you the best they can.

It’s not a race to the bottom and there’s no point in pitting one group of HCPs against another. We need them all.

@aramo Its not completely incorrect. Nurses cannot do bank nursing shifts. Many of the hcas in the department I work in are medical and nursing students. Many students including medical and nursing HAVE to work part time to cover their living costs. Whether this is during term time weekends or during holidays is dependent on their personal circumstances and ability to balance work, university and placements.
Your son could apply for bank hca work whether the university frown upon it or not is a different matter.

If you are self employed paying into a pension scheme is very tax efficient. Worth checking with your accountant.

That’s shit money for what they do!!!!

Basically tax payers who can hardly heat their homes have not much sympathy for rich doctors at present

They’re not low paid because of doctors.

This is one of the times when some one like @User1437957 misses the entire point of what people have been saying, so badly that it goes over their head and makes themselves look pretty dam stupid trying to be cleaver 😂

I'm embarrassed for you truly.

The same place they do now…. why would that be any different? Doctors will not stop being doctors because of their starting salary. They are clever enough to work out that over the life of their earning potential, it’s a pretty lucrative career.

Oh you mean the NHS doctors that are leaving in droves? Are you going around the world to chase them back?

@Sockloon Don’t be 😅 the way the nhs is and the hostility of the public to it is sooo damn funny. The rest of nhs is going the same way as dentistry. Having to wait 9 hrs in A&E because there is no doctor free and we are driving out the few that remain. Those thinking they can afford private are in for a shock.

i am out of this thread. 🤢

They don’t (and can’t) all become consultants with private practise on the side.

Plus working conditions are awful; any bit of research will tell you that.

And finally, their pay has been eroded. That means it is worse, than it was, after you take into account inflation. How is that acceptable?

@pcl09 i think the point is where will they gain their experience and develop their practice? The NHS provides all the training programmes for doctors to ensure they obtain a variety of training placements and experiences. This helps drive improvements in care and develop best practice.
Private care whilst often quicker with nicer rooms doesn’t always provide the most all round care.
When you have smaller providers such as bupa spire etc with more limited specialties the doctors it would produce have a narrower area of practice and skills

PTSD from doing your job treating people with a viral illness? Are you sure you made the right career choice?

If they leave after their FY/CT years because their conditions are shit, they will not be able to become consultants. There are hoops to jump and exams to pass to get to that stage. So you won’t get your private healthcare. Private healthcare isn’t run by newly qualified junior doctors. They have to survive many years of NHS slog first. That’s not going to happen if they jump ship.

So covid is like any other viral illness ?

Shit.... I totally fucked up....

Somehow despite qualifying in 2005, I only secured a consultant post in 2019....

I wish I was like those other doctors you know who squeezed 2 years of foundation training 2 years of core training and 6 years of specialty training and two post cct fellowships into 6 years....

Are you sure it wasn't the Doctor, with a TARDIS?

DH was a partner in a GP practice. After 25 years he handed back his contract last year. The practice closed as no GP’s applied to take it on. The way the government is treating GP’s - particularly after a horrendous time working through Covid, was the last straw.

@Bloopsie you have clearly no idea what Covid wards were like. Such ignorance.

My DH is an ex UK doctor, now a consultant in Australia. He says the doctors who insist that, “it’s a vocation, the pay isn’t important” have a buffer of family money

@Bloopsie do you not remember seeing you n the news all the patients dying daily on ventilators without the staff and equipment to monitor them. Being unable to provide the level of care to your patients results in moral injuries to staff. This is the main cause for burnout and staff appearing to be indifferent.

So he went into medicine for money.

It’s odd so many seemingly do so if it’s so terrible.

Teachers leaving and doctors leaving will ruin us all. Private schools and private hospitals still need trained staff.

Once consultants like me (full time, NHS, no desire to do private work, lots of goodwill) retire, who will take over? I don’t see applicants chomping at the bit. Senior trainees are looking at research or part-time work, and juniors are fleeing.

in the future a lot of gps work will be digitalized,in some european countries now referrals to consultants and common prescriptions are made based on AI program diagnosis, imo gps are just step above pharmacists, cant/dont do enough and dont know enough particulary about anything, just do the bloods and read the obvious off the form that i can read myself whats the norm range etc, for any other problem its antibiotics,steroids or pain killers or advice to just wait it out.