Did I just hear Sunak promise to investigate inappropriate and unsafe sex education in school?

[Nimbostratus100]

Did I just hear Sunak promise to investigate inappropriate and unsafe sex education in school?

I don't really listen to priminister questions, but I was just channel hopping waiting for the kettle to boil

So IABU to dance a little dance?

YABU - no you misheard, he didn't say that/ he said it but it is meaningless

YANBU - yes you heard it, yes it means something, dance away

Every child in Britain has access to a school library and/or a public library (and a newsagent).

I don’t know of yoh ever nothered to step into a library, but they actually contain quite a lot of information, including internet access and curated and age-appropriate sex education materials that give children all the knowledge they need to protect themselves. Should a child have no school or oublic library they can pop into their local newsagents to buy (or, as my best friend used to do, nick 👀) plenty of teenage magazines that, again, include info on sex that at least has been past an editor.

There is zero need for schools to invite perverts in to promote caging buggery and choking to kids, and definitely no need to spend precious school budget on doing so.

I didn’t catch PMQs but I saw that Miriam Cates had made a speech on the subject and she is brilliant. She has been trying to raise the alarm on these issues for a while now and has received huge amounts of correspondence from parents who are finding that their kids are being taught all sorts of utterly unsuitable materials.

She’s the one who got yelled at in the House of Commons by Lloyd Rees Moyle (?) for telling about her extremely uncomfortable encounter in the ladies toilets with a male born trans person.

Great news if Rishi is looking at it, let’s just pray that he doesn’t end up with trans activists on the team looking at it - many government departments have gender ideology deeply embedded.

I've just checked with two of my DDs, 15 & 13. They've only been taught the mechanics of PIV sex, maintaining boundaries/consent, and pregnancy/STD prevention.

It doesn't seem right that some schools are teaching all sorts of stuff that is definitely not mainstream. Those poor kids.

Pleasure can be taught in a classroom setting. You don't need to be sitting them down and giving live demonstrations on masturbation, but they should know what a clitoris is and what it does. They should know that the acts they see in porn are extreme and rarely pleasurable for the woman. They should have an appreciation that sex should be mutually enjoyable.

There are some big problems with this - it is a strange adult or a teacher talking about the pleasurable side of sex with kids who have not been able to say no. They have no choice.

• most ‘effective’ teaching now is class participation, interactive so this generally is not just ‘the clitoris is capable of orgasm’ biologically, this is kids sometimes boys and girls having to talk to teacher other in groups and play games such as the ‘dice game’ where a sex act like anal sex comes up and they talk about it. So basically kids are forced to talk about sex acts with others in front of a teacher.
• a child who is being abused could be having an orgasm from their abuser - that does not mean that this is mutually OK or enjoyable. By teaching about pleasure a child could be retraumatised. Sometimes people orgasm when they are being raped. It is a biologically reaction but does not mean absence of harm.
• what is pleasurable? This is so subjective. Some people would say hardcore sex, rough sex, where are you going to draw the line here?

So this is a huge can of worms by teaching kids ‘what is pleasurable sex’ and how pleasure can be gained in sex, by a teacher, in a classroom, do kids who cannot say no.

@Treehappy

Your have Nailed it, with your intelligent insightful comments on sex education syllabus at schools today, and the issues around safe guarding

Responding to your points in turn:

• You do not have to teach it this way. I would not teach this in an interactive way and would simply give them the biological facts about the clitoris.
• Yes, an orgasm is a biological process and I am aware some women experience orgasm when they are raped. You don't have to teach them "if you orgasm that means you consented" or "it's not abuse" but teach them the biological process and facts. Consent should be taught separately.
• You are right, what is pleasurable is indeed highly subjective, and there are some women out there who might enjoy an extreme act like double anal penetration (for example). But you don't start giving them lists of "things someone somewhere enjoys", as quite apart from anything else you'd be there forever. You just give them the information (in an age appropriate way) that sex should be enjoyable, that not everyone is the same when it comes to how they enjoy sex, but that acts seen in porn are often extreme, can have a risk of pain and injury, and is not representative of what most people will find enjoyable. It is very difficult to counter the insidious messages children and teenagers receive from porn if you can't tell them what a positive and healthy sexual experience should be like - i.e. consensual and enjoyable.

It’s just so problematic ‘pleasure’, or ‘healthy sexual experience’. Boundaries - yes, consent - yes, that porn is rubbish - yes, that saying no to anything for any reason is okay - yes.

But it has to be crystal clear what this all means - safeguarding should be the main issue, consent should be the main issue.

Relationships - healthy relationships can be taught but there is absolutely no reasons at all for ‘healthy sexual experience’ to be taught as I don’t know how you’d do that without breaking all kinds of safeguarding boundaries. And sex, really should be about relationships, even short ones, it’s about knowing what a good healthy relationship looks like.

If true this is horrific. Really, really unpleasant. Did the MP asking the question give an example of one of the schools doing this? She said it was happening across the country so, in my opinion, would he morally obliged to inform parents of the schools. Unless of course it isn't happening across the country at all and this is more stoking of culture wars. And to those saying that obviously education about same sex relationships, contraception, abortion and even the biology of procreation is not on the radar of the Conservatives, check with your local MP and ask them for their views on this.

Don’t you immediately see the issue with highlighting a school or schools by name during PMQs? Again the actual children here seem to be very lost in the muddled thinking of posters. The children being taught the kind of content being discussed here are entitled to not be subject to the interest of the press. The teaching staff are entitled to not have their identities plastered all over the internet.
‘Unless of course it isn't happening across the country at all and this is more stoking of culture wars.’ So you think an MP stood up and lied about this subject in the House of Commons for what to prove a point?

So you think an MP stood up and lied about this subject in the House of Commons for what to prove a point?

Not PP, but I am open to the idea that MPs are not always entirely truthful and I like others on this thread would like to see some proof before getting the pitchforks out.

@Eyerollcentral

The teaching staff are not accused of delivering the content. I would have thought that between the outraged MP and the Daily Mail, one of the schools or even local authorities would have been mentioned. Heck, if it's such a problem across the country, someone on here could verify the claim. And I didn't call anyone a liar, although we know there is no penalty for not telling the whole truth in parliament. I said if true, it's horrific. I meant it, if this happens as frequently as suggested, it's something we should be very concerned about.

Why is proof of anything required?

An investigation into what is going on will hopefully open a discourse into what amounts to best practice in Sex Ed.

Which is not going to be teaching 70+ genders , queer theory and kink.

Given that schools have been lobbied by groups that support Gender Ideology and QT and there are reports that students are being taught these things both in the press and on this thread, unless you are calling posters on here liars, what further proof is required to call for an investigation?

I mean I wonder why some posters on here don't want an investigation in to what is going on?

The pendulum swings both ways. DC school contracted out sex education to these clowns

lovewiseonline.org/

who teach that being gay is a sin, sex outside of marriage is wrong, girls should dress modestly to avoid tempting boys into sin because men by nature have difficulty controlling lustful thoughts, that divorce causes lifelong harm to children, and so on.

They also run an abortion advice centre recently featured on Panorama where they were barefaced lying to women in order to manipulate them into keeping unwanted pregnancies.

They were uninvited from school when us parents kicked up a massive stink about it. School said they didn't realise that this organisation held these beliefs, that they do not reflect the values held by school and that they invited them as the organisation initiated contact and offered to come in and run the lessons.

Sex education in schools should be taught by staff from a standardised curriculum in the same way as other subjects. Safeguarding and good health should be at the forefront of deciding what is taught.

It would be really irresponsible to broadcast the name of a school, surely you realise that? Well there’s a review now so if it’s all fine then it’s all fine isn’t it?

HOW had the school not known what the aims and beliefs of this organisation were??? Genuinely insane. Clearly there needs to be an investigation in to all of us.

Research shows that a good standard of sex education helps to reduce teen pregnancy, STIs, sexual exploitation and sexual abuse.

The literature they send to schools is very generic and doesn't go into detail but it links to their website which does go into detail. The generic literature gets their foot in the door.

I'm in favour of using evidence approaches to SRE, as is the norm in many European countries with much better teenage sexual health outcomes. This has been rejected by politicians of both parties for years. As the MP in question claimed there was a nationwide problem, I'm assuming she has already conducted at least a rudimentary investigation herself, before stoking outrage in PMQs.

Consent and pleasure aren’t different when it comes to sex though are they?

Sex is about pleasure and consent should only be given to something you find pleasurable. Being attuned to whether your partner is actively enjoying what is happening is how you know you have ongoing consent throughout the whole sexual encounter. I don’t think schools should teach how to give pleasure to your partner - that is not the role of school- but they should teach that pleasure is the absolute fundamental basis of consent.

@Iam4eels

I assume the MP in question will raise the issue of the inappropriate Christian sex Ed next Wednesday. I'm sure.

Schools obvs don’t have the capacity to deal with this issue on an individual or authority wide basis. It’s shocking.

Did you miss the 106 page document linked earlier upthread. I haven't read it all.

www.newsocialcovenant.co.uk/RSE%20BRIEFING%20FINAL%201631%20(IS)_small.pdf

Of course they are? You can consent to sex and it’s not actually pleasurable, I’m sure most people have had that experience at least once in their lives!
‘but they should teach that pleasure is the absolute fundamental basis of consent.’ No, the fundamental basis of consent is that the person knows what they are going to do and wants to do it.

I’m on the fence about whether things like anal sex and “breath play” should be mentioned in schools.

But I am certain that IF they are mentioned, the next sentence should be along the lines of “these things are shown in porn, because porn focuses on extreme types of sex act, but in real life many people do not enjoy these and it is absolutely acceptable to say you don’t want to”.

If they are mentioned without this sort of caveat there is a strong risk that children get the impression it’s all normal and everyone is doing this stuff. Which just reinforces what porn is already telling them.

The real issue is not that these acts are being mentioned, it’s that they’re being mentioned as if they are a totally standard and expected part of sex.