Did I just hear Sunak promise to investigate inappropriate and unsafe sex education in school?

[Nimbostratus100]

Did I just hear Sunak promise to investigate inappropriate and unsafe sex education in school?

I don't really listen to priminister questions, but I was just channel hopping waiting for the kettle to boil

So IABU to dance a little dance?

YABU - no you misheard, he didn't say that/ he said it but it is meaningless

YANBU - yes you heard it, yes it means something, dance away

Clearly labour. That's why we need to vote conservative.

Agreed

Children learning about keeping their bodies private and safe is absolutely not the same as learning about choking or blow jobs.
THIS.
Keeping boundaries is what safeguarding is all about.
Having the normalization of choking / anal sex / how to do blow jobs from adults to kids in school is the opposite of boundaries - it’s stepping all over them!

www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/4815330/fuming-parents-blast-john-swinney-over-porn-anal-sex-and-transgender-id-lessons/amp/

I agree, and this is why I think schools should teach function, health, safety, sexuality, AND consent and pleasure.

If we're going to counter the - very powerful - messages from porn, we need to give them the facts.

‘Sex and reproduction is something that almost every person will have to deal with at some point and it is a public health issue, therefore I think it's appointment to keep in schools.’ You could say the same about wiping your ass, to be crude, do you want schools to have to teach your children that too?
The point of sex education was originally to ensure people knew what sex actually was at a time when it’s discussion was completely taboo. Then it expanded to prevent teen pregnancies, then to prevent STDs, now it’s apparently to instruct teens how to choke each other and have anal sex. Yet according to you teens are still clueless.
‘If they already know about it, then it's no harm to give them the facts in a school then is it? It would help clear up playground myths and half-heard stories from older siblings etc.’ What decade are you currently living in? All teens have access to the internet. Do you think they don’t google what is an orgasm? Did you never go and look in a sex book in a bookshop or library if you couldn’t an answer to something you didn’t know about as a teen?
‘You could say this about literally anything on the syllabus though. Teach them algebra yourselves you lazy shites!’ Most parents know about sex and relationships and most parents also have an opinion on what is appropriate for their children to learn about and when. Algebra or French obviously need to be taught by someone with expertise in that subject. What’s most bizarre about your entire philosophy is that you appear to believe that sex and relationships exist in a vacuum and can be learned about in the abstract, and that everyone has the same views on sex. Clearly they don’t.

@StephanieSuperpowers

Thank you for replying. I would think/hope that the answer would be for teachers to be given the proper training. I would hope that then there would be some accountability as to what was being taught

I am all for sex education but am disturbed by the pp whose daughter was being taught all about different types of sex from a male perspective and female pleasure/ clitoris ignored.

You could say the same about wiping your ass, to be crude, do you want schools to have to teach your children that too?

Some schools do have to teach children this...

now it’s apparently to instruct teens how to choke each other and have anal sex.

Again, does anyone have any solid evidence of this?

Yet according to you teens are still clueless.

If you can quote where I've said that I'd be grateful. But you'd have to be living under a rock not to know about the sheer levels of misinformation flying around on the internet, not to mention the influence of extreme porn.

All teens have access to the internet

No, they don't. Most do, yes, but not all. The widely reported issues with home-schooling for those living in poverty during the COVID pandemic is proof of this.

What’s most bizarre about your entire philosophy is that you appear to believe that sex and relationships exist in a vacuum and can be learned about in the abstract, and that everyone has the same views on sex.

Umm no, that's exactly my point - they don't. And that's why we should let schools teach a standardised syllabus instead of children and teenagers receiving a wide range of information from parents ranging from the non-existent to the unhealthy and the dangerous.

@walkersareback , I really think that everything is complicated now and the demands on teachers are excessive in this regard. I'm not even slightly surprised that teachers would feel unequal to the tasks of delivering the kind of sex education some posters think they should.

Regarding the story of the clitoris, I think that's why we need to get away from the idea that schools can, and should, teach everything about sex and how it relates to people's personal experience of sex. There is no way they can adequately cover this topic and I'm not sure that they should really try.

I WAS brought up in a very religious household where sex was completely taboo and before the internet was mainstream. I was actually taught biology and human reproduction by a nun. I still knew what sex, orgasms, blow jobs were well before i was 16 in the mid nineties. So did all my friends many of whom were brought up in similarly religious households. What I didn’t know explicitly I soon got to happily learn myself with my boyfriend - who by the way had been brought up in exactly the same background as me. Neither he nor I believed a male orgasm was the only important one and again that would have been typical of most of my friends. You have a very narrow view and understanding of life as it is actually lived.

Good for you, but your experience is not everyone else's. You might have learned all that by yourself, but that doesn't mean everyone else will. So I still say schools should have a standardised syllabus that includes pleasure and consent.

Personally I think sex education should be standardized and come from Public Health and Child Safeguarding - it needs to be through a central think tank, evidence based, widely consulted on and thoroughly followed up with evaluation.

While I agree that schools should be teaching that sex should be pleasurable for both parties, I think that some folk are pushing things too far. See for example...

www.petertatchellfoundation.org/what-should-schools-teach-pupils-about-sex/

Red flags in abundance.

No Peter sex is not a fundamental human right. No, school should not be teaching how to have good sex. No schools should not be teaching about sado masochism.

Organisations like this should be banned from schools.

‘now it’s apparently to instruct teens how to choke each other and have anal sex.
Again, does anyone have any solid evidence’ It’s well documented, google it yourself. Do you think an MP in the House of Commons was lying about that content being taught when she explicitly raised it today?
‘All teens have access to the internet
No, they don't. Most do, yes, but not all. The widely reported issues with home-schooling for those living in poverty during the COVID pandemic is proof of this.’ All teens have access to the internet either at school, in public libraries even if they do not have it in the home.
‘And that's why we should let schools teach a standardised syllabus instead of children and teenagers receiving a wide range of information from parents ranging from the non-existent to the unhealthy and the dangerous.’ Who decides what is to be regarded as standard though?

So I still say schools should have a standardised syllabus that includes pleasure and consent. pleasure is extremely problematic in that there is great potential for harm - by the normalization of porn based misogynistic practices and by trampling over kids boundaries. Why on earth should kids, who have no right to say ‘no’ to sex education in schools, having to talk or discuss intimate sex acts with adults? That is a safeguarding boundary. Some kids who have been or are being abused could also be retraumatised.

I have no problems with a central evidence based think tank looking into what is needed for kids biological understanding of sex, of the risks of sex physically and emotionally, of sign posting them if they have problems (child line etc), of boundaries.

But you veer into ‘this is what pleasure is sexually’ and it’s much more likely to be harmful - remember this is not something kids can say ‘no’ to which makes it much more problematic safeguarding wise, it breaks down a boundary in which a child should not have to learn about ‘their sexual pleasure’ from a strange adult that they have not consented to.

I didn’t say it was? It was fairly typical though in a still religious society without access to the internet and I was brought up in a household that even at that time was more religious than most. Do not dismiss my experience and those like me. Pleasure is not teachable in a classroom setting. Consent is a totally different matter. You keep trying to conflate them.

You have said this much better than I could and I completely agree with what you say.

www.transgendertrend.com/gender-indoctrination-schools-teenage-girls-testimony/

Is it appropriate to teach all students of the same age the same thing?
They may have different life experiences, intelligence, emotional IQ, literacy, numeracy, religious backgrounds and so on, all of which would impact and what and how it is appropriate to teach them.

I tend to agree.

I am not dismissing your experience. You said to me that I have a narrow view of life, but of the two of us I seem to be the only one with an appreciation that not everyone has the same opportunity to access accurate information independently and that my own life experience of having good-quality information easily available is not the same for everyone.

I am not conflating pleasure and consent, nor have I anywhere on this thread. They are two separate things which is why I keep saying schools should teach function, health, safety, consent, AND pleasure. Note the Oxford comma.

Pleasure can be taught in a classroom setting. You don't need to be sitting them down and giving live demonstrations on masturbation, but they should know what a clitoris is and what it does. They should know that the acts they see in porn are extreme and rarely pleasurable for the woman. They should have an appreciation that sex should be mutually enjoyable.

One could add in, the day of the week, what they had for lunch, the time of day, what the weather is, what happened at breaktime, who won the football last night to the list of factors that might affect how and what it was appropriate to teach to a particular group on any given day.

www.transgendertrend.com/proud-trust-nothing-proud/

Proud Trust cover multiple counties with their "partner" charities. They all use the same resources.

Lifted from another thread:

www.newsocialcovenant.co.uk/RSE%20BRIEFING%20FINAL%201631%20(IS)_small.pdf

You seemed pretty dismissive. You do have a narrow view as you can’t seem to take in to account the legitimate concerns around this sensitive topic. No one is saying sex education should be banned. People have justified concerns of the breadth of the subject matter, the appropriateness of that for teens and the additional question of where does the school’s responsibility end.

I’m not going in to pleasure with you as an above poster has put the issues around it succinctly and if you haven’t already I’d encourage you to read and consider it.
Re your Oxford comma pls see your last post to me ‘includes pleasure and consent.’