Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Did I just hear Sunak promise to investigate inappropriate and unsafe sex education in school?

605 replies

Nimbostratus100 · 08/03/2023 12:20

Did I just hear Sunak promise to investigate inappropriate and unsafe sex education in school?

I don't really listen to priminister questions, but I was just channel hopping waiting for the kettle to boil

So IABU to dance a little dance?

YABU - no you misheard, he didn't say that/ he said it but it is meaningless

YANBU - yes you heard it, yes it means something, dance away

OP posts:
jgw1 · 09/03/2023 18:06

lifeturnsonadime · 09/03/2023 17:59

Does throwing shade mean things like calling people trans activists in order to try and shut down any meaningful debate?

Debate about what?

I've totally lost the plot.

We want what is happening in schools to be investigated and are pleased that this is happening.

What is the debate? What don't you agree with?

Whatever it is you are arguing about that you don't want people with a different view point to contribute to.

7Worfs · 09/03/2023 18:08

I agree that it shouldn’t be solely DfE doing the investigation. They’ve allowed this shitshow. They can join and observe, but absolutely not lead it. This is an audit for them.

lifeturnsonadime · 09/03/2023 18:08

What is your view point?

Is it that you don't want an investigation to happen?

Why would that be?

If you do want an investigation to happen then why are we arguing over evidence that pre-dates any investigation.

We should ALL be happy for the investigation to bring clarity, no?

Theeyeballsinthesky · 09/03/2023 18:08

I’m assuming the reason that the DfE is considered somewhat biased might have something to do with Jonathan slater who in 2019 was Permanent Secretary to the dept of education, was named stonewalls senior champion and oversaw stonewall getting a £230,000 grant from the DfE. Yes I’m sure they will be totally objective

Stonewall get everywhere

lifeturnsonadime · 09/03/2023 18:09

7Worfs · 09/03/2023 18:08

I agree that it shouldn’t be solely DfE doing the investigation. They’ve allowed this shitshow. They can join and observe, but absolutely not lead it. This is an audit for them.

So do I, why would the DfE who has allowed these lobby groups in be competent to carry out an investigation.

Can't understand why Cates is being criticised for that. It's logical that a department shouldn't investigate it's own safeguarding failures!

MarshaBradyo · 09/03/2023 18:09

Hobbi · 09/03/2023 18:01

There hasn't been an investigation yet. It's perfectly reasonable to be concerned about how it may be conducted. Cates has said she doesn't want the DfE involved, I find that extremely sinister as there is no reason the relevant department shouldn't investigate issues that are in its remit. I would prefer Ofsted to conduct the investigation and review. Why do you have a problem with that?

Show quote history

Wouldn’t independent to DfE be even better?

As you say it’s within their remit. They would be marking their own homework.

A completely separate group is better surely

MarshaBradyo · 09/03/2023 18:11

lifeturnsonadime · 09/03/2023 18:09

So do I, why would the DfE who has allowed these lobby groups in be competent to carry out an investigation.

Can't understand why Cates is being criticised for that. It's logical that a department shouldn't investigate it's own safeguarding failures!

Show quote history

Exactly!

So there are no real objections.

jgw1 · 09/03/2023 18:12

Sex education in China "a 2019 UNESCO / UNFPA study found that when presented with the statement “a woman cannot refuse to have sex with her husband,” less than half of its participants disagreed."

We must have in the UK an urgent investigation of the RSE teaching of consent in the UK as a result of this UNESCO finding.

jgw1 · 09/03/2023 18:13

7Worfs · 09/03/2023 18:08

I agree that it shouldn’t be solely DfE doing the investigation. They’ve allowed this shitshow. They can join and observe, but absolutely not lead it. This is an audit for them.

What shitshow is that?
The consistent underfunding of education in the UK for the past 13 years?

Hobbi · 09/03/2023 18:13

@jgw1

"Does throwing shade mean things like calling people trans activists in order to try and shut down any meaningful debate?"

We've to take all the insults as arguments in good faith and accept that our wish to have an independent review of the evidence is definite proof of our desire to harm children. It's perfectly reasonable for an MP (who has stated that winning the culture war is her highest aim) to want the DfE to be prevented from conducting actual research into the issue she purports to know about. That's perfectly reasonable, I mean why should a department do what it's set up to do? Obviously no agendas there.

Rainbowshit · 09/03/2023 18:14

jgw1 · 09/03/2023 18:12

Sex education in China "a 2019 UNESCO / UNFPA study found that when presented with the statement “a woman cannot refuse to have sex with her husband,” less than half of its participants disagreed."

We must have in the UK an urgent investigation of the RSE teaching of consent in the UK as a result of this UNESCO finding.

Have you commented on the BBC's 100 genders website being used in school education yet? That thing that you say doesn't exist?

Hobbi · 09/03/2023 18:15

@jgw1

"Aren't you a far right Christian trans activist? I am."

I forget, I've been called so many things, I can't keep up. If I were, it would certainly make my commitment to harming children more logical.

7Worfs · 09/03/2023 18:17

jgw1 · 09/03/2023 18:13

What shitshow is that?
The consistent underfunding of education in the UK for the past 13 years?

Show quote history

I’m talking about the topic of the thread - RSE and lack of national guidance, curriculum, vetting of third parties.

But you already know that.
Don’t waste my time with deflection to other arguments.

DdraigGoch · 09/03/2023 18:18

JusteanBiscuits · 09/03/2023 11:08

I presume this is all on the back of the factually incorrect report by the Tory think tank led by Miriam Cates and Danny Kruger??

They provide NO evidence in their report. Just hear say. And those that have fact checked the report can find no evidence of their claims. No where have kids been taught how to safely choke a partner (this claim comes from a website that isn't actually aimed at children and isn't used in any curriculum).

It also contains a section on critical race theory. Make of that what you will.

Well of course kids have never been taught how to safely choke a partner. That's because you can't choke someone safely. Choking should only be mentioned in sex ed in order to point out how risky it is, and preferably illustrate the sort of jail sentences that men who got convicted got (not enough by the long way, "sex game gone wrong" is still a pervasive myth in our justice system).

MarshaBradyo · 09/03/2023 18:19

Hobbi · 09/03/2023 18:13

@jgw1

"Does throwing shade mean things like calling people trans activists in order to try and shut down any meaningful debate?"

We've to take all the insults as arguments in good faith and accept that our wish to have an independent review of the evidence is definite proof of our desire to harm children. It's perfectly reasonable for an MP (who has stated that winning the culture war is her highest aim) to want the DfE to be prevented from conducting actual research into the issue she purports to know about. That's perfectly reasonable, I mean why should a department do what it's set up to do? Obviously no agendas there.

Why would you want the department to look at its own actions?

Of a company needs to be audited so you go to the finance department or independent auditor?

Hobbi · 09/03/2023 18:22

These aren't the actions of the DfE. If true, they will be the actions of the state-funded private entities known as a academy chains. I think Ofsted should investigate. It's illogical to say the actions of individual schools or MATs are those of the DfE - if that were true, all school inspections would be invalid.

MarshaBradyo · 09/03/2023 18:23

Why is the DfE so important in this? It seems a big deal to some but I don’t get the attachment

Hobbi · 09/03/2023 18:25

MarshaBradyo · 09/03/2023 18:23

Why is the DfE so important in this? It seems a big deal to some but I don’t get the attachment

If individual hospitals were accused of dodgy practices, the Department of Health would investigate. It would be odd to say they shouldn't do so. I don't know why Cates should immediately object to the DfE doing its job.

jgw1 · 09/03/2023 18:26

7Worfs · 09/03/2023 18:17

I’m talking about the topic of the thread - RSE and lack of national guidance, curriculum, vetting of third parties.

But you already know that.
Don’t waste my time with deflection to other arguments.

Show quote history

All of which are a consequence of having had the same government for 13 years that has little interest in state education and funding it properly.

jgw1 · 09/03/2023 18:28

MarshaBradyo · 09/03/2023 18:19

Why would you want the department to look at its own actions?

Of a company needs to be audited so you go to the finance department or independent auditor?

Show quote history

Where does the independent auditor get all of its information from?

Ah yes the finance department. And independent audits have such a fabulous reputation.

lifeturnsonadime · 09/03/2023 18:30

Hobbi · 09/03/2023 18:25

If individual hospitals were accused of dodgy practices, the Department of Health would investigate. It would be odd to say they shouldn't do so. I don't know why Cates should immediately object to the DfE doing its job.

Show quote history

It depends on why the individual hospitals are doing the dodgy practices.

If it were on the direction, or possibly on the direction , of the department of health then the Department of Health would not investigate.

The problem here is the DofE has been invested in trans activism. The fact that not all schools have followed the agenda doesn't mean it is not complicit.

MarshaBradyo · 09/03/2023 18:31

I don’t see the issue. People seem to be hung up on this one thing.

Without it there are no objections I’m assuming.

A group set up to focus on this issue is no problem.

Rainbowshit · 09/03/2023 18:31

Where does the independent auditor get all of its information from?

Ah yes the finance department. And independent audits have such a fabulous reputation.

So are you saying here there should be no investigation or that there should be no independent investigation? 🤔

lifeturnsonadime · 09/03/2023 18:32

Rainbowshit · 09/03/2023 18:31

Where does the independent auditor get all of its information from?

Ah yes the finance department. And independent audits have such a fabulous reputation.

So are you saying here there should be no investigation or that there should be no independent investigation? 🤔

Going round in circles.

Some people really don't want to get to the bottom of what is happening.

Some people are very invested in denying it is happening even though it clearly is.

jgw1 · 09/03/2023 18:32

lifeturnsonadime · 09/03/2023 18:30

It depends on why the individual hospitals are doing the dodgy practices.

If it were on the direction, or possibly on the direction , of the department of health then the Department of Health would not investigate.

The problem here is the DofE has been invested in trans activism. The fact that not all schools have followed the agenda doesn't mean it is not complicit.

Show quote history

I'd be exceedingly grateful if you could share with us the directive from DfE to schools that instructed schools to push trans activism.