To ask what stops you voting for the tories ?

[Icandothattoo]

For me
The unending shite that is brexit
Corruption and dishonesty, especially during the pandemic but not uniquely. And not just Johnson.
Making already deprived areas compete against each other for levelling up money whilst perfectly affluent tory voting areas are handed it on a plate (looking at Richmond N yorks Rishi ! ). Funny that 80% of constituencies getting levelling up funds are tory...
Whole culture war. Singling out certain minorities to attack for purely political gain. In the 80s single mums, 90s benefit claimants, 2000s refugees, immigrants. FWIW I'm fairly gender critical but disliked the way they toadied round Trump and his abhorrent opinions/followers who pretty much wrote the culture war playbook.
So what stops you from voting for them ?

They would have known from 2010 onwards if they used the NHS, Surestart or were dependent on benefits. There’s only one party that could have presided over the increasing misery of the last decade or so.

Demographics are the key here. I never thought it was a coincidence that people born when Thatcher took power had their first chance to vote in 1997.

That was me, I was born in 1976 so I was very excited to vote Labour in my first GE and happy that Labour won and looking forward to all the positive changes. But nothing really changed.

It did. A lot. You clearly weren’t a user of any of the services that went down the pan.

Down the pan in 2010. This is what happened in the NHS in the 13 years after 1997. Fact, not anecdote.

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/sites/default/files/summary-high-performing-nhs-progress-review-1997-2010-ruth-thorlby-jo-maybin-kings-fund-april-2010_0.pdf

Labour just threw money at the NHS, they didn't reform it, and that was what was needed. The same for the entire public sector. Labour will never fundamentally change anything. They rely on the public sector vote too much.

@Florenz bizarrely, in 13 years the Tories didn’t reform the NHS either, so what are you on about? It’s worse than ever. Perhaps it did need some money “thrown at it”.

They made huge changes. Read the report.

If you have to read a report to know about how they've reformed it, they haven't reformed it.

You’ve forgotten how good it used to be. Look at the waiting times they achieved.

It needs a lot more reform than simply reducing waiting times. That's not reform at all, that's just throwing money at a failed system.

We need an NHS for the 21st century. As in, design a health system as if the NHS was starting now, instead of taking the NHS from the 1950s and tinkering around the edges to try and modernise it. Because how it is run now is just ridiculous. Inefficient doesn't even begin to describe it.

Not giving billions to their mates for dodgy ppe would have helped.
The tories gave mismanaged the NHS along with other services whilst simultaneously robbing the country blind.
They need to fuck off before they do anymore damage, the sooner, the better.

Reducing waiting times is exactly what’s needed now. Compare this with the figures in the report. It’s what’s needed for 7 million suck people.

At the end of February 2023, 58.5% of patients waiting to start treatment (incomplete pathways) were waiting up to 18 weeks, thus not meeting the 92% standard.

• The number of RTT patients waiting to start treatment at the end of February 2023 was 7.2 million patients. Of those, 362,498 patients were waiting more than 52 weeks, 29,778 patients were waiting more than 78 weeks, and 1,038 patients were waiting more than 104 weeks.

• During February 2023, 1,645,247 patients started a new RTT pathway (new RTT periods or clock starts).

• During February 2023, 280,384 RTT patients started admitted treatment and 1,118,913 started non-admitted treatment (completed pathways).

• For patients waiting to start treatment at the end of February 2023, the median waiting time was 14.5 weeks. The 92nd percentile waiting time was 46.2 weeks.

https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/04/Feb23-RTT-SPN-publication-version-PDF-430K-55444.pdf

But the thing is, the Tories will get back in eventually. And Labour aren't interested in making changes that the Tories can't undo.

So Labour throw money at the NHS, reduce waiting times, and then in 10 or 15 years time, the Tories get back in and we're back in the same situation again but even worse as the population has got even older with even more medical needs.

Anyone can throw money at a problem to improve things. But eventually there is no more money to throw. The NHS needs be completely and utterly reformed. How it is run is absolutely fucking insane. No private business is run so inefficiently because if it was, it'd be bankrupt decades ago.

No private business is run so inefficiently because if it was, it'd be bankrupt decades ago.

What a ridiculous analogy. You’ve run out of road.

No private business does business by sending letters to other departments of the same business! It's absolutely fucking ludicrous that this still goes on in 2023. It should be just click, click, click and it's done. Appointment booked, follow up appointment booked and that's it. Done. Not sending messages to other departments for them to individually book the appointment. Click it, book it, texts and email confirmation goes out automatically, it takes a matter of seconds, patient leaves, next patient comes in. That is how private businesses work in 2023! I am honestly dumbfounded that people can not see how inefficient the NHS is. There are whole swathes of people employed doing jobs that there is simply no need to even exist. Why?

While they partied my husband's diagnosis and treatment was delayed, he faced surgery and chemo alone while they 'mingled' in Westminster. While they lied to suit themselves my husband was dying a painful, early, needless death. They will never, ever get my vote. Never.

Whats insane about it Florenz?

The central concept of the NHS is very highly trained specialists in primary care on the front line (GPs) building longterm relationships with patients, filtering out and managing primary/chronic needs, and managing the relationship of patients with specialists. That to me is still in theory a perfectly good model to maximise impact of limited specialist time. Most private sector companies that I'm aware of try to do the sane thing but with maximum standardisation and automation to reduce costs at the front line, resulting in the kind of car crash that is Evri customer service (for example).

It's fucking insane that people are still word processing letters in 2023. Absolutely fucking insane. Integrated systems, a few clicks of a mouse and it's all done. The NHS reducing costs isn't about profit, it's about freeing up money to be used in actually improving tangible services and saving lives, and making people less sick and more healthy. Yes things should be automated wherever possible. Yes the NHS should look into using AI wherever feasible. What is the alternative? Staying stuck in the past for the sake of it, because that's what people are used to? It just makes me so angry that people are just so obstinate to see it, the NHS is treated as a sacred cow that is perfect, it just needs more money but otherwise to stay exactly the same. It needs to be COMPLETELY reformed, no stone left unturned, if the staff don't like it, get rid of them, adapt or get out of the way. Because how things are now just isn't tenable, not even short term, let alone long term.

I feel like you're talking about things that don't exist any more. I don't know anyone who spends their days word processing letters, mine are mostly secure messages sent from the patient record. In my community-based team we run our day via a 30 minute allocation teams meeting plus WhatsApp to keep each other informed of which patients need what. We see people within 24 hours of hospital discharge, referrals come via a secure email template. I work with people with communication and cognitive problems, they are resourceful and use lots of tech to support their communication but we can't just assume they will be able to access every form of automated communication without support. I know loads of NHS units who work like this. We have to work like this, I'm the only person in my speciality in this team for the whole county. We do have an administrator, it's true. He mostly supports the tech and keeps track of us, our quality indicators and our caseload, he never does letters.

@Florenz you’re still not explaining why the Tories haven’t done these oh so obvious reforms in 13 years.

I was very skeptical about Blair and would have preferred John Smith. But I had friends working in housing associations who told me that a lot of funds poured into the sector.
There was a windfall tax on privatised utilities. Sure Start nurseries. NHS waiting times plummeted.
Then he got the war bug. Sigh.

To ask what stops you voting for the tories ?

The current incumbents are not Conservatives ?

@Florenz It needs to be COMPLETELY reformed, no stone left unturned, if the staff don't like it, get rid of them, adapt or get out of the way. Because how things are now just isn't tenable, not even short term, let alone long term.

At least the latter part of your statement is correct. I am very open to change in the NHS if it improves the patient experience/outcomes. I have seen the positive impact of technology for patients with long term conditions. I also get frustrated with the substandard IT as much as the next person, IT that is provided by the private sector lets not forget.

We have less nurses, doctors and beds than any other comparable country, which will obviously have a huge inpact on the level of care provided. Most hospitals are running hot as far as bed occupancy rates are concerned, which isn't safe operating procedure, people get discharged unsafely and bounce back in if they are lucky , mistakes happen because staff are under undue pressure and patients are moved like chess pieces around a site at ridiculous times of the day and night to free up beds.