To ask what stops you voting for the tories ?

[Icandothattoo]

For me
The unending shite that is brexit
Corruption and dishonesty, especially during the pandemic but not uniquely. And not just Johnson.
Making already deprived areas compete against each other for levelling up money whilst perfectly affluent tory voting areas are handed it on a plate (looking at Richmond N yorks Rishi ! ). Funny that 80% of constituencies getting levelling up funds are tory...
Whole culture war. Singling out certain minorities to attack for purely political gain. In the 80s single mums, 90s benefit claimants, 2000s refugees, immigrants. FWIW I'm fairly gender critical but disliked the way they toadied round Trump and his abhorrent opinions/followers who pretty much wrote the culture war playbook.
So what stops you from voting for them ?

Blossomtoes
All a bit vague, isn’t it @ Clavinova? I’d give it more credence if a few facts were involved.

Quite a few facts in the second case here;
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/10/labour-defends-complaints-process-after-three-year-delay-in-harassment-case

Not really, it’s just waffle.

Not really, it’s just waffle

If you say so - they have quoted Labour MPs Charlotte Nichols and Rosie Duffield. Do they tend to waffle?

More from Charlotte Nichols in this article;
“I’m ashamed that (yet again) my own party’s actions don’t match our rhetoric on higher standards.”
And Stella Creasy;
“It’s deeply troubling that this case shows we could be employing people who have been found to abuse their position.”
https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-labour-mp-call-action-party-aide-harassment-case/

Andrew Marr has just been talking about some of the waffle on LBC.

Whilst not wanting to downplay the seriousness of sexual assault, these cases are a mere fraction of the wrongdoings of the Tory party - on so many levels. Plus proven incompetence.

Bring on the next lot.

Clav can be obtuse at the best of times.

Presumably their cut and pasting posting is somehow intended to elicit a "Tory sexual abuse bad; labour sexual abuse good" sentiment from some posters. Exactly like Trump supporters think.

However I can't really see anyone here falling for it. Any form of sexual abuse by anybody is a serious crime and should be investigated and punished accordingly.

And Clav is quietly glossing over the fact that the Tories have fucked the whole country. And some of us were not consenting.

Presumably their

'her'

I really don't get the "labour not a viable alternative"

We ve just come back from 2 weeks in France and Spain...... so smooth roads (we are keen cyclists so really do notice these things) full supermarkets inc loads of fresh fruit and veg, prices generally on par or cheaper than UK, then we needed to use a Spanish AE, it was like a BUPA hospital in the UK.

If other countries can have decent roads and hospitals, why, after 13 years, haven't we ? the decision not to maintain roads and invest in health are simple choices that the Cons have made.

UK has a similar or a larger economy than almost all of Europe...... yet we accept such terrible public services and infrastructure.

Have you seen half the Labour candidates?

If I wanted my country run by Millie Tant I wouldn't expect roads to be pothole free and trains to run on time, but there would be a lot of gender feelz workshops for the proles.

Pmsl that you can see the shower of shit that is this bunch of thieving tories, and still think that Labour will be worse.

The tories have made an active choice to give taxpayers money to their mates rather than reinvest it into the country, doing nothing with the money except leaving it where it was before they started redirecting it would be better than what we have now. On that basis a wet lettuce could have done a better job. There is no way Labour, or anyone else could be worse.

Fucking hell the tories still include Johnson, Sunak (both fpns in government), 30p Lee, middle finger to the country Andrea Jenkyns, Braverman (security risk), Raab (bullying), I could go on. The back benchers seem to think this is acceptable, they voted for Sunak after his first fpn. They set the sranards for the country, and while they may be happy with lowering the standards, the police an example of organisations following their lead, I find it deplorable.

How many Labour candidates do you know? either personally or via the media?

However, try this... Google "Gender Workshops in my area" '000s came up, locally and nationally.... all happening under this Tory Govt.

The last Labour lot ended up with ministers in prison for fraud. Although I actually quite liked them - at least they were professional politicians unlike half the current Labour choices who are professional moaners who couldn't run a raffle.

If you seriously think the likes of Angela Raynor could run anything more than a student union bar without fucking it up, then I guess you would think we'd be fine with the current crop of Labour candidates. Thank god they finally dumped Corbyn but plenty of useless younger equivalents still standing.

It's a crap choice between overt corruption towards business and self serving self interest on the one hand and overt corruption towards both unions and business, but a bit crap at it, and a holier than thou wokerati attitude combined with zero management skills on the other. Huzzah.

I assume you mean McShane who was in court ten years ago @ArcticSkewer? Or perhaps back bencher O’Mara? Other than those two, fraud seems to be pretty much non existent in the Labour Party.

The Labour front bench is looking pretty impressive at the moment. Rachel Reeves is a former Bank of England economist - good experience for a chancellor. Streeting worked for as a management consultant, Nandy was a charity researcher and policy adviser, Yvette Cooper was economics correspondent for the Indie.

If you want to demonstrate people who couldn’t run a raffle I refer you to Dorries, Bone, Hancock, Johnson, Truss and Kwarteng as a starter for ten. Many more examples are available.

I don't vote for the Tories because I'm not a selfish c*nt.

I second that!

@Blossomtoes no I am talking about the last time Labour was in power, and it ended just as badly as things are going now for the Tories, except with a Minister convicted of, actually I checked and it was false accounting, not fraud, while in office.

Of course you are right, there are so many to choose from if you are looking round for those convicted of some crime or other, all stripes of politicians, but I thought we could compare like with like - the dying days of the last Labour government and the dying days of the Tories time in power.

They are all corrupt - Tories are straightforwardly corrupt. Labour like to mix it up with self righteousness as well, plus these days you get a good dose of wokerati.

Love Cooper. If only more of Labour were like her, as opposed to the likes of Rayner and Long Bailey. How anyone can bring themselves to vote in either of those two.

You're right, the Brexit crew are equally as useless but less dangerous as they are just thick and venal as opposed to thick, venal and self righteous.

Being Scottish.

Its the current Tory story to say "all politicians are corrupt/bad/dishonest etc etc" because that means folk either don't vote or stick to their usual choice.... criminality & greed do not respect the left or right in politics but these in reality are side issues.

In my 42 years of being able to vote, i ve seen most Govts leave office with some things worse than when they came in and many things better, even with Thatcher!

But after 13 years, everything has either been removed or wrecked, take libraries, swimming pools, roads, transport, health, schools, nursery care, public transport... you name it and the Tories have wrecked or removed it.

'ucking 'ell ! they have even made travelling to Europe harder, more burdensome and expensive.

The Tories weren’t pro Brexit. Jeremy Corbyn definitely was. He was a Marxist and part of their credo wacko leave Europe. If the Labour Party had been allowed to come out pro remain we might still be in the EU.

Was not wacko although seems to be relevant to JC

I am talking about the last time Labour was in power, and it ended just as badly as things are going now for the Tories, except with a Minister convicted of, actually I checked and it was false accounting, not fraud, while in office.

Recollections vary. The last Labour government was never anywhere close to as bad as this lot. Which minister was it? Because I genuinely can’t find one.

Thats re writing history on a grand scale, the vast majority of Tory MPs campaigned for Brexit and almost ALL party members too.

Pre referendum, Corbyn came out in favour of remaining (its on record) & you clearly don't know what a Marxist is if you think Corbyn was one, his policies in 2017/19 were very moderate compared to Labour in 1945 or Wilson in the 60's.

BUT most importantly, once we had the vote, it was the Tories that gave us such a hard and damaging Brexit, no one else, they had the majority, 80 MPs...

Remember even in 2017 May said no to SM and no to CU.... hence the mess we are all in now.

Blossomtoes
I assume you mean McShane who was in court ten years ago. Or perhaps back bencher O’Mara? Other than those two, fraud seems to be pretty much non existent in the Labour Party

I wasn't aware of Denis Macshane (former Labour minister). Labour MPs Elliott Morley (another former minister), David Chaytor, Eric Illsley and Jim Devine were also jailed for fraud/false accounting in the early 2010s. Labour MP Margaret Moran (£60,000 false accounting/forged invoices) escaped jail because she suffered a mental breakdown and was deemed unfit to plead/stand trial.

The Labour front bench is looking pretty impressive at the moment. Rachel Reeves is a former Bank of England economist

Looks like she worked for the Bank of England between the ages of 21 and 27 - the graduate starting salary for a Bank of England economist is currently £31,000 (London) - that's actually less than the starting salary for a central London nurse (£32,000).

Streeting worked as a management consultant

Did he? Who for?

Blossomtoes
Not really, it’s just waffle

I often wonder whether 'the waffle' is timed to come out at the same time - three days in a row now for Labour;
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-65557543

I've only just realized - Clavinova is an anagram of 'vote labour'!

Jason118
I've only just realized - Clavinova is an anagram of 'vote labour'!

Russian alphabet?