Page 6 | to take action against school for daughter's back pain?

ghi · 2023-03-05T15:45:15+00:00

My daughter attended a school where it was compulsory to sit bolt upright at all times like in the Victorian era. You would get a detention if you didn't, and if a teacher allowed you to sit naturally, and a manger came in, the teacher would be told off in front of the class This was teachers being made to impose a rule, with no medical or physiotherapy training, and the person that invented this rule was a deputy head who was a modern language specialist This started when she was in year 10, and continued throughout year 11, and she is a tall girl, and started getting back ache from the first few weeks. I really wanted to change schools, but it is a very difficult thing to do in GCSE years. I wish I had now, because your health is more important than your GCSEs Anyway, she is at university now, and still gets lower back pain every single day, and it isn't improving - Gp can do very little except pain killers and physiotherapy exercises, but agrees this is likely to have been caused by the rule to sit bolt upright for hours every day, while trying to read and write. I am so angry that a stupid, ignorant MFL teacher has done this damage to my daughter, but what can I do about it now? Can I take some sort of legal action? I don't even know where to begin. I would like to hear if anyone else has had a similar experience, thank you

MoreSleepPleasee · 05/03/2023 19:09

Yanbu. My childs school doesn't do that.

Original poster

ghi · 05/03/2023 19:10

Bettyboop3 · 05/03/2023 18:40

How on earth were they supposed to be able to look down at what they were writing if they were sitting in that position?!

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Well, it wasn't easy, and they all used to say it hurt.

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Original poster

ghi · 05/03/2023 19:17

MysteryBelle · 05/03/2023 18:20

She’s been told by doctors not to sit up straight? Not all drs are good drs apparently and they’re telling you what you want to hear. I’d agree with you if the school were not in fact making students sit up straight but to sit exaggeratedly with their backs arched. Sitting perfectly ramrod straight is good for you, not bad. Have you yourself observed what position the teachers approved of? When your daughter has shown you the position they want her to sit in, is it ramrod straight which is good, or something else? You may be very angry and so are disparaging a very healthy habit when you need to find out exactly what position the teachers are enforcing. I’d go talk to them and have them show me. I’d take my daughter and have her demonstrate the position in front of them etc. Be logical about this. Unfortunately you may have destroyed your relationship with the school and they will no longer communicate with you. Even when my son and I were rebelling toward his school we remained on good terms with the principal and teachers and we all as good will toward each other.

Yes, I saw it, and heard the teachers describe it ,and demonstrate it. It is not at all a healthy or natural position, as confirmed when we showed the GP and physio

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Original poster

ghi · 05/03/2023 19:19

DevantMaJardin · 05/03/2023 18:25

Have you thought how much worse her back would have been if she hadn't had to sit up straight for some of her lessons at school? Have you considered that the back problems started after she finished at this school and therefore started slouching? These are the counter arguments that would be made if this ever got to court.

No, it started within a few weeks of this ramrod rule being introduced.

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MysteryBelle · 05/03/2023 19:20

Op, some of us may be bristling against you saying sitting up straight is bad. When you may mean that the way the school made your daughter sit was bad, in other words, not straight but calling it sitting straight. Maybe they exaggerated it and it can’t really be called sitting up straight. Is there any way to find their instructions and share them with us and is there any way you can talk to one of the teachers at least and have them demonstrate with your daughter present, and have her demonstrate and confirm yes or no, the position they are enforcing? That will give you a baseline to decide whether to move on or to pursue a form of redress.

Original poster

ghi · 05/03/2023 19:21

purpledalmation · 05/03/2023 18:33

Take out the 'ramrod' word, and they were simply expected to sit up straight. Sitting up straight does not cause back issues. Slumping does.

If you're determined see a private orthopaedic surgeon and ask if this is a likely scenario. A GP is not an orthopaedic specialist. You need to prove sitting straight caused permanent damage to the spine, ligaments etc.

3 years after having a diagnosis and a firm belief the sitting caused the injury. See a no win no fee solicitor, but I think you will be disappointed

No, it was beyond just sitting up straight.

I have tried to explain this lots of times.

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Original poster

ghi · 05/03/2023 19:23

MysteryBelle · 05/03/2023 19:20

Op, some of us may be bristling against you saying sitting up straight is bad. When you may mean that the way the school made your daughter sit was bad, in other words, not straight but calling it sitting straight. Maybe they exaggerated it and it can’t really be called sitting up straight. Is there any way to find their instructions and share them with us and is there any way you can talk to one of the teachers at least and have them demonstrate with your daughter present, and have her demonstrate and confirm yes or no, the position they are enforcing? That will give you a baseline to decide whether to move on or to pursue a form of redress.

Yes, as I said, I saw it at the time.

I have been looking for the instructions, but I can't find them right now. But as I said, the one point I do remember being drummed in repeatedly, in front of me when I queried it, was holding your head up so high that you feel tension in your neck, and if you don't feel tension, then it isn't high enough. - and then, having to hold that position for an hour, six times a day.

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saltinesandcoffeecups · 05/03/2023 19:24

ghi · 05/03/2023 19:23

Yes, as I said, I saw it at the time.

I have been looking for the instructions, but I can't find them right now. But as I said, the one point I do remember being drummed in repeatedly, in front of me when I queried it, was holding your head up so high that you feel tension in your neck, and if you don't feel tension, then it isn't high enough. - and then, having to hold that position for an hour, six times a day.

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Surely the school’s public website would pictures posted that shows this way of sitting.

Original poster

ghi · 05/03/2023 19:25

MysteryBelle · 05/03/2023 18:46

Ask parents of other students there to see their copy. I’m surprised you didn’t keep a copy since you’re seeking retribution or spending all this time on it.

I have got a copy somewhere.

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MysteryBelle · 05/03/2023 19:25

I just saw your updates. Then in fact, the teachers are not enforcing sitting straight but a different unhealthy position. Just because they’re calling it sitting up straight doesn’t mean it is, if the position is not actually that. So you shouldn’t be upset at a true sitting up straight posture, but at them falsely labeling a bad posture and enforcing it. I guess I don’t understand why you’re railing against a ramrod straight (ramrod meaning straight) posture, which is good, when it seems you’re really talking about an exaggerated, not straight bad posture.

Maireas · 05/03/2023 19:25

She did not hold her head stretched high 6 hours a day.
She was obviously able to look down at her book occasionally. How did she pass exams?

Original poster

ghi · 05/03/2023 19:25

I think people are right. There is no point in trying to get any sort of complaint going now, and we are best concentrating on moving forward.

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Bettyboop3 · 05/03/2023 19:30

Maireas · 05/03/2023 19:25

She did not hold her head stretched high 6 hours a day.
She was obviously able to look down at her book occasionally. How did she pass exams?

Exactly this, you try and hold your head like that and then move your eyes as if you are reading or writing at a desk. It just isn't possible!

MyBloodyBrother · 05/03/2023 19:31

I’m sorry but it’s bullshit that it’s bad for your back. I attended White Lodge for a couple of years before I got too tall and we were expected to be standing/ sitting/ walking with dead straight backs at all times. Surprisingly the Royal Ballet managed not to produce decades worth of performers with back issues as a result.

Unless the school was not making them sit straight and instead making them lean at some bizarre, unnatural angle then of course your child’s back issues aren’t a result of being made to sit correctly for a few hours a day. Teenagers always say stuff hurts and complain if they aren’t getting what they want. The school my mum does supply teaching at recently had to buy chairs for all pupils for assemblies as so many children and their parents had started complaining about back issues from having to sit on the floor for 15 minutes a day.

saltinesandcoffeecups · 05/03/2023 19:32

You know what’s odd… usually someone would have piped in by now with a similar example or picture of what the OP is describing.

SheilaWilcox · 05/03/2023 19:41

ghi · 05/03/2023 19:25

I think people are right. There is no point in trying to get any sort of complaint going now, and we are best concentrating on moving forward.

Yep move on. Letting her feel like a victim won't help her recovery.

cansu · 05/03/2023 19:43

Sitting up straight in a few lessons is hardly going to lead to back pain. You would have zero chance of proving this as the cause either. Your dd could have back pain from anything! Utterly bonkers.

Cosyblankets · 05/03/2023 21:20

I still think this is ridiculous but surely at 21 she's still in touch with people she went to school with. How are they?

monitor1 · 05/03/2023 21:21

I would be amazed if anyone with any medicolegal experience would put their reputation on the line for 'the school caused this pain'. In the nicest possible way, move on and let this go

Shroedy · 06/03/2023 08:51

You wouldn't have to prove that, without a shadow of a doubt, the school rules caused the issue but you would have to prove that "on the balance of probabilities" (ie more likely than not) it did. As well as having to factually establish what the rules were and what your DD was actually doing in practice (very difficult as a lot of the latter will likely end up "he said, she said"), it would predominantly come down to expert medical evidence on exactly what is the medical cause of the issues for your daughter and the most likely trigger for that. A GP would not have close to the sufficient expertise to be able to opine on that as it would require specialist assessment by a medical professional with muscular-skeletal specialism and most likely scans and detailed examination. You don't have that so anyone who is telling you it was the school rules is speculating and it's impossible to really assess chances of success. Since the underlying reason for muscle-based back issues are likely to be very hard to pinpoint it would end up costing a lot of money to even understand your likely prospects and they're probably not great. I'd agree with those saying best to move on.

LondonQueen · 07/03/2023 23:47

Sitting up straight is unlikely to damage her back. In fact a natural position (slouching) is one of the biggest factors in lower back pain. You will be laughed out of court.

Original poster

ghi · 07/03/2023 23:52

LondonQueen · 07/03/2023 23:47

Sitting up straight is unlikely to damage her back. In fact a natural position (slouching) is one of the biggest factors in lower back pain. You will be laughed out of court.

if you'd read the thread you would see that this point of view is largely discredited now, and it does actually stem from Victorian aesthetic values, rather than biological understanding

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MysteryBelle · 08/03/2023 00:04

ghi · 07/03/2023 23:52

if you'd read the thread you would see that this point of view is largely discredited now, and it does actually stem from Victorian aesthetic values, rather than biological understanding

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Largely discredited? No, I don’t think so. People will believe anything these days. Sitting up straight and standing straight is good, slouching too much is not good. This is something we know is true, I know it personally. What’s next, 2 + 2 no longer equals 4? Who pays for the study or studies you’re citing, Op? Look deeper into what you’re saying. Your daughter slouches. That’s probably where her pain is from, the sitting up straight of course felt uncomfortable after years of slouching. Which you encouraged by the way. She’s slouching now, so the pain can’t be blamed on siting up straight at school, ridiculous.

fitzwilliamdarcy · 08/03/2023 12:19

Given that parents these days complain about absolutely everything and given that many schools now resemble zoos of appalling behaviour, I find it extraordinary that this school was able to enforce... all the students sitting ramrod straight with their eyes facing forwards and never looking down at their books or doing any written work, ever, for 6 hours per day throughout the entirety of their high school years.

I suspect that there's some exaggeration going on here. And if there wasn't, then why all of these parents just let the school abuse their kids is frankly beyond me.

Cosyblankets · 08/03/2023 13:13

fitzwilliamdarcy · 08/03/2023 12:19

Given that parents these days complain about absolutely everything and given that many schools now resemble zoos of appalling behaviour, I find it extraordinary that this school was able to enforce... all the students sitting ramrod straight with their eyes facing forwards and never looking down at their books or doing any written work, ever, for 6 hours per day throughout the entirety of their high school years.

I suspect that there's some exaggeration going on here. And if there wasn't, then why all of these parents just let the school abuse their kids is frankly beyond me.

This with bells on