to take action against school for daughter's back pain?

[ghi]

My daughter attended a school where it was compulsory to sit bolt upright at all times like in the Victorian era.

You would get a detention if you didn't, and if a teacher allowed you to sit naturally, and a manger came in, the teacher would be told off in front of the class

This was teachers being made to impose a rule, with no medical or physiotherapy training, and the person that invented this rule was a deputy head who was a modern language specialist

This started when she was in year 10, and continued throughout year 11, and she is a tall girl, and started getting back ache from the first few weeks.

I really wanted to change schools, but it is a very difficult thing to do in GCSE years. I wish I had now, because your health is more important than your GCSEs

Anyway, she is at university now, and still gets lower back pain every single day, and it isn't improving - Gp can do very little except pain killers and physiotherapy exercises, but agrees this is likely to have been caused by the rule to sit bolt upright for hours every day, while trying to read and write.

I am so angry that a stupid, ignorant MFL teacher has done this damage to my daughter, but what can I do about it now?

Can I take some sort of legal action? I don't even know where to begin.

I would like to hear if anyone else has had a similar experience,

thank you

If your daughter wanted to take legal action that's up to her not you.

I think it's possible you are actually angrier at yourself for choosing to ignore your daughter's pain rather than go through the hassle of changing schools and so focussing on what the school did wrong rather than what you did wrong. It's understandable, but I think in the end, futile and soul-destroying. I think you need to accept that what's done is done as you cannot prove what the school did caused the issues and refocus and then redirect your research into helping your daughter find a way to manage the pain and improve her muscle strength through physiotherapy / yoga / pilates etc which will help in the long run. I hope she finds some way to improve her pain, back pain is awful.

How many other kids from your daughter's year have bad back pain now?

You keep using this term 'ramrod straight', what exactly do you mean by that anyway. Sitting up straight is ok, you're now saying she has been told never to sit up straight? So when she is sitting at the table or on a bus or something what does she do?

Op, I’m sorry, but you are simply wrong to say that sitting up straight is bad for your back. It is slouching that ruins your back, I know that for a fact in my own experience and it is a fact we all know is true, biologically, scientifically, in real life experience, in studies etc.

Err - no. They are both bad for your back as the medical studies now confirm. But let's not all keep insisting on something no longer medically accepted being true when it is so much fun berating the OP. The OP may have been misled by what her GP told her or perhaps misunderstood, but turning this into a bunfight isn't helping anyone. I think she now realises that things are more complex than she thought and has moved on. Perhaps everyone else can do the same, and not keep repeating awful advice. Sitting up straight is just as bad for your back, biomechanically, as slouching.

If (as you say) she's been having regular treatment for three years without any improvement, do you not think it might be worth getting a second opinion?

As I said upthread, I've suffered with back problems all my life so I understand how painful they are, but I would try and forget about the past and focus on what you can do to change things today - which means looking at things like:

How she sits today - does she slouch, sit with her feet curled up under her, cross her legs while sitting, have appropriate support for her back?
Her sleep position - does she sleep on her sides, back or stomach? Does she sleep curled up? Does she have a good quality mattress and decent videos?
Her job - if it's a desk job, is her desk/chair at the appropriate height for her and is it supportive enough? Can she speak to OH and ask for an assessment to ensure she's getting all the support she needs?
Is she getting enough exercise outside of physio sessions? Things like walking and swimming are both great for back pain. Mine has improved drastically since I got a dog and started walking everyday, for example.

I know you're frustrated about how you feel your DD was treated but I don't think complaining will get you what you want.

She’s been told by doctors not to sit up straight? Not all drs are good drs apparently and they’re telling you what you want to hear. I’d agree with you if the school were not in fact making students sit up straight but to sit exaggeratedly with their backs arched. Sitting perfectly ramrod straight is good for you, not bad. Have you yourself observed what position the teachers approved of? When your daughter has shown you the position they want her to sit in, is it ramrod straight which is good, or something else? You may be very angry and so are disparaging a very healthy habit when you need to find out exactly what position the teachers are enforcing. I’d go talk to them and have them show me. I’d take my daughter and have her demonstrate the position in front of them etc. Be logical about this. Unfortunately you may have destroyed your relationship with the school and they will no longer communicate with you. Even when my son and I were rebelling toward his school we remained on good terms with the principal and teachers and we all as good will toward each other.

This too.

Have you thought how much worse her back would have been if she hadn't had to sit up straight for some of her lessons at school? Have you considered that the back problems started after she finished at this school and therefore started slouching? These are the counter arguments that would be made if this ever got to court.

We now say that "your next posture is your best posture" rather than suggesting people sit up straight because current thinking is that movement is the best way to prevent back pain. Humans aren't really suited to sustaining static positions for a long time. The core strength theory of back pain has also been questioned over the last few years on the basis that EMG studies have shown people with back pain actually have overactive core muscles generally.

I suspect that if someone made any of us sit completely still and straight for more than a few minutes it would probably hurt. It may or may not have been the cause of your daughters back pain, no one will ever know for sure or be able to prove it one way or the other. I can't think of any form of structural damage or injury it could have caused that would then show up on imaging to provide you with proof. Even with imaging we don't have an explanation for 95% of back pain because it's just so unbelievably complicated and influenced by so many factors.

I understand you feeling angry and like you want to do something about this. But your efforts and your daughters are probably best spent moving forward and trying to manage the back pain (as you have been doing). The Chartered Society of Physiotherapy has some good information on their back pain microsite.

Medical studies now confirm? We know that not all studies are equal in accuracy. Sitting up straight is not bad for your back but good. People want to hear what they want to hear regardless of the truth. Her slouching and bad posture while sitting, lying on the sofa or bed, and standing may be causing her back pain as that is what she does all the time now and for many many years, much longer than the good posture she “had” to “endure” at school. Standing and sitting straight is what helped my back problems so you will never successfully peddle your opinion to me.

Movement is crucial and of course being in one position too much is not good but keeping your body pretty straight when you do sit, stand, bend, etc is good and has helped me tremendously. As you get older you truly appreciate how good posture and strong core muscles and plenty of active movement help and the harm that constant slouching does.

Take out the 'ramrod' word, and they were simply expected to sit up straight. Sitting up straight does not cause back issues. Slumping does.

If you're determined see a private orthopaedic surgeon and ask if this is a likely scenario. A GP is not an orthopaedic specialist. You need to prove sitting straight caused permanent damage to the spine, ligaments etc.

3 years after having a diagnosis and a firm belief the sitting caused the injury. See a no win no fee solicitor, but I think you will be disappointed

I am trying to find the instructions they used to have, but can't locate them right now.

But it wasn't like the information in SLANT that @noblegiraffe mentioned.

They were told to hold their heads up so high that they feel tension in their neck all the time, for example. If they couldn't feel tension then their heads were now high enough

Pirates is the best thing to sort the back long term, OP. Her height might also be contributing to back issues. Whether sitting straight can be linked to the issues, I don't know, sitting properly is not bad for tge back its a neutral position, but if you sit incorrectly, ie they didn't make sure the kids knew how to sit, then yes it can be bad....!

Pilates not pirates 🤣🤣🤣🤣

But school kids do not sit for 6 hours solid. They change classrooms, have a mid morning and afternoon break and a lunch break. All opportunities to move. Under those circumstances it's very unlikely to develop into chronic pain.

And who knows how she sat at home? Slouched over a phone or laptop could be where the problem occurred.

Sitting up straight is better for you than slouching. Has your daughter had her kidneys checked?

How on earth were they supposed to be able to look down at what they were writing if they were sitting in that position?!

Also backache can be caused by lots of things.

Lol you've over egged it now OP

We need to see the school’s instructions. Are they not on their website? Can you look for your copy at home?

Ask parents of other students there to see their copy. I’m surprised you didn’t keep a copy since you’re seeking retribution or spending all this time on it.

I'd get a private MRI, about £350, to rule out things like ankylosing spondylitis before I started suing. I know my teenager regularly does 12k steps, just moving between classes. Hard to believe they sit there long enough for it to be the cause, surely?

That's right, OP.
Teachers are deliberately trying to destroy the spines of vulnerable teenagers.
Well at least it's a new one.