to take action against school for daughter's back pain?

[ghi]

My daughter attended a school where it was compulsory to sit bolt upright at all times like in the Victorian era.

You would get a detention if you didn't, and if a teacher allowed you to sit naturally, and a manger came in, the teacher would be told off in front of the class

This was teachers being made to impose a rule, with no medical or physiotherapy training, and the person that invented this rule was a deputy head who was a modern language specialist

This started when she was in year 10, and continued throughout year 11, and she is a tall girl, and started getting back ache from the first few weeks.

I really wanted to change schools, but it is a very difficult thing to do in GCSE years. I wish I had now, because your health is more important than your GCSEs

Anyway, she is at university now, and still gets lower back pain every single day, and it isn't improving - Gp can do very little except pain killers and physiotherapy exercises, but agrees this is likely to have been caused by the rule to sit bolt upright for hours every day, while trying to read and write.

I am so angry that a stupid, ignorant MFL teacher has done this damage to my daughter, but what can I do about it now?

Can I take some sort of legal action? I don't even know where to begin.

I would like to hear if anyone else has had a similar experience,

thank you

Well thats good news. Ive got one upstairs but Im too fat for it at the moment and Im hoping I could wear it to hold in loose skin when the time comes. Perhaps I wont end up fainting all the time then!

She could try Pilates or yoga to strengthen her core muscles, which will help.

If you google it the results seem split with some professionals agreeing with your wife and some saying the opposite. Backs are like that aren't they, complicated things that don't always behave the way we expect them to.

Proving that something happened and proving that it's the cause of chronic pain several years later are two very different things.

Being forced to sit in a certain way for long periods of time can cause back pain, but you have no way of proving that it was school that caused this and not a whole manner of other things - her height, sitting in unnatural positions at home, how she slept, sport she might have done, her overall diet, any pre-existing issues she may/may not have etc.

It's unfortunate your DD is still suffering and has someone who's had back pain for 25-odd years now, I really get how depressing it can be, but I don't think taking action against the school is the solution here - unless you can get multiple students from the same year group who all suffer the same symptoms to get together, but even then, I think you would struggle and it would cost you a fortune if you lost.

So no Pe? Science doing experiments? Tech lessons in there?

how long was her day to do 6 one hour lessons a day? Add in dinner and breaks and she must have had a very long day!

Honestly, you are being ridiculous. The school may not have tolerated slouching, but unless they clamped your daughter in some kind of vice, she was not holding her back in an unnaturally straight position all day.

It is much more likely that she found sitting up straight to be uncomfortable because she had a weak lower back with naturally poor muscle tone, which is also causing the problems she is experiencing now. Her doctor should never have encouraged you to believe otherwise, although I suspect he or she just murmured "Ah...mmm" rather than debate your belief.

As I have said before, this is literally my wife’s job, to understand what can cause back pain and the effects on muscles when you sit in one position for long periods of time. She treats back pain every single day, I think she knows what she’s talking about. Thinking that sitting bolt upright most of the day is good for you is old fashioned thinking and has been debunked. What’s best for your back is to keep it moving and not to keep it in the same position for prolonged periods of time, especially when that position is causing you pain because your muscles are fatigued.

No one can say with absolutely certainty that this is the cause of her back pain, but it’s wrong to say it definitely wasn’t and that it was healthy or good for her daughter to be forced to do this, which is what most posters are saying.

Technically, sitting ramrod straight is good for your back. So either all 6 teachers insisted your daughter sit in an exaggerated unnatural position that was actually not ramrod straight and so caused back pain, or your daughter is having back pain for other reasons.

It is not natural to slouch, it is just lazy.

I do sympathize with you op to a degree because my son and I “rebelled” against his Catholic school requiring short haircuts. We flouted this rule constantly and spectacularly. He’d get warnings, I’d get warnings. Now I realize I was being belligerent and teaching my son to be belligerent, thinking we didn’t have to follow the rules like everybody else. And really, sitting up straight and having neat haircuts are not terrible, oppressive, or tyrannical 😂

no the school rule was ramrod straight, at all times, as I explained

Yes this. Her muscles are likely weak so it was uncomfortable to sit correctly but it is necessary to learn that good habit and then her back will thank her.

no, it is not good for your back! and yes, it was a very exaggerated and unnatural position

I have a hunch (no pun intended) that I know who this MFL teacher is.

Is it the SLANT technique? That shouldn't be applied 24/7, merely when the students are meant to be listening to the teacher. You couldn't sit up ramrod straight while writing an essay, I'd have thought.

@ghi

Listen to this week's Inside Health on bbc sounds.

You are going to have a very difficult time proving that your daughter has back pain because she was told to sit up straight. I am sure that there is plenty of evidence to support the opposite.

Can i ask how you think winning a court case will benefit your DD or ease her back pain?

Honestly, I have said these things,

the students were forced to sit ramrod straight, for all the time they were sitting down, not "don't slouch" but absolutely ramrod straight, like victorian school children, and they were required to hold that position for all lessons, so for 6 x1 hour lessons a day, which sometimes meant 3 x 2 hour lessons, and sometimes meant slightly less, if they were doing PE or something,

It wasn't natural, it wasn't healthy, and it hurt ( it hurt them all at the time, not just my daughter)

And staff caught not imposing it would get into trouble

People keep saying I am exaggerating, but I am not, this was the school rule, and you would get a detention for not doing it

The high number of people who think I must be exaggerating does make me feel like IANBU, because clearly people think a school shouldn't be doing this, which is why they think the school didn't do it, and I am mistaken, or exaggerating in some way.

That is a very good question.

I am maybe being motivated by anger, and want to see some sort of justice - but you are right, it won't heal her back

I don't know, I have just googled it, it might be - but yes, it was imposed at all times when sitting down, reading, writing, even sitting on the floor in drama lessons, etc

But you still have no solid proof that it's this specific method of sitting and learning that has caused your daughters problems.

If you went to court and said "X was caused by Y" - the school will just turn around and say "where's your proof?". A GP saying that they think X caused Y isn't enough, as the school will just produce their own doctor/physio that says sitting up straight is excellent for posture and that it must be caused by something else.

Mate. You sound nuts. If the school is so bad, why did you keep sending your child?

Op, I’m sorry, but you are simply wrong to say that sitting up straight is bad for your back. It is slouching that ruins your back, I know that for a fact in my own experience and it is a fact we all know is true, biologically, scientifically, in real life experience, in studies etc.

Your daughter may want to do core strengthening exercises and every single health and exercise and medical expert will tell you that it is good for your back to stand up straight and to sit up straight. Now maybe the teachers you’re talking about did NOT make your daughter sit straight but to exaggerate her position, or she exaggerated her position at times which caused the pain. You don’t know, you weren’t there. But stop blaming it on sitting up straight which is good for you. In fact, if you’re encouraging her to slouch all the time, then that’s where her back pain may be coming from and even sitting straight at school couldn’t counteract her many many hours and years of slouching. Being tall, the problem will be magnified. She shouldn’t want to slouch anyway. Not good for her back and not good for her own esteem. Stand tall.

You encouraging her to slouch over the years and still to this day is probably causing her back pain. It is the first thing to look at when having problems, a very basic thing we all need to be aware of. Stop blaming the school for your weird love of slouching and the problems it causes.

Because I made a mistake

I wish I had taken her out, but at the time I decided that it was not a good time to change schools, once GCSEs had started, and I was wrong - it would have been better to sacrifice GCSEs than sacrifice her back

well, for the past 4 years she has been taking medical advice on her posture, which is certainly NOT to sit ramrod straight, ever.

Well there you are then. Move on