to take action against school for daughter's back pain?

[ghi]

My daughter attended a school where it was compulsory to sit bolt upright at all times like in the Victorian era.

You would get a detention if you didn't, and if a teacher allowed you to sit naturally, and a manger came in, the teacher would be told off in front of the class

This was teachers being made to impose a rule, with no medical or physiotherapy training, and the person that invented this rule was a deputy head who was a modern language specialist

This started when she was in year 10, and continued throughout year 11, and she is a tall girl, and started getting back ache from the first few weeks.

I really wanted to change schools, but it is a very difficult thing to do in GCSE years. I wish I had now, because your health is more important than your GCSEs

Anyway, she is at university now, and still gets lower back pain every single day, and it isn't improving - Gp can do very little except pain killers and physiotherapy exercises, but agrees this is likely to have been caused by the rule to sit bolt upright for hours every day, while trying to read and write.

I am so angry that a stupid, ignorant MFL teacher has done this damage to my daughter, but what can I do about it now?

Can I take some sort of legal action? I don't even know where to begin.

I would like to hear if anyone else has had a similar experience,

thank you

Actually, the current view is that sitting up straight - as in at a 90 degree angle - is actually the worst position for your back, so yes, it is an "unnatural posture". Ideally people should be leaning slightly back at around 135 degrees angle www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/57654#1

The problem with the OP's position is not so much that she is incorrect about posture, as that she is assuming that one thing and one thing only has caused the condition. In someone so young, it is highly unlikely that she was sitting up straight for such lengthy periods as to cause, or for that to solely cause, the problem - students usually move around from one area of the school to another, have breaks, and aren't generally stationary for such lengthy periods. There could easily be multiple contributing factors - including the fact possibly that she is just tall (muscle strain in taller people is a common cause of a bad back). So the OP has no possible chance of proving a causal link between posture at school and a bad back, and I suspect the GP was simply telling her what she wanted to hear because they knew that they would never be called out on such a rash and random comment.

But what you are describing as good posture isn't good posture. It is very bad posture.

I have a serious back issue and have made a personal injury claim for it. My advice would be to forget legal action which is unbelievably stressful, protracted and uncertain. It’s a very dirty business. And if you lose potentially very very expensive.

Concentrate on helping your daughter to recover. For me that includes painkillers ( hopefully not for her on a regular basis), a decent work chair and avoiding sitting for any length of time. Heat helps hugely ( invest in an electric heat pad ). And biggest of all, movement. I start each day with stretches and gentle Pilates, I walk a fair bit ( never too far), swim and exercise in water. When sitting I have cushions for extra comfort.

If your DD is cursed with back pain she has to learn self management and stick to it. An occasional massage is lovely.

It’s a pain in the neck ( back) but her energy will be better focused on being strong. A local physio clinic should run a bespoke Pilates class for back care.

Feel free to pm me if you want any further information. Wishing you both well.

But it’s not going to have been hours without moving is it. In most secondary schools the pupils will be up and moving between lessons, some lessons will also involve moving in the lesson itself.

I suspect as you have no proof either way, there's very little you can do.

I've had chronic back problems all my life - I have mild scoliosis and sacroiliitis and one of the most helpful things I can do is sit up straight.

However, even in my thirties, that's not my default sitting position so when my back is playing up and I do remember to sit up straight, it hurts for a while as it feels so unnatural and strange. After a few days of doing it consistently, the pain resolves itself.

Unfortunately I then tend to go back to sitting curled up, and it's a bit of a never-ending cycle of slouching, pain, sitting properly and slouching again

Does your DD have good posture generally? Did she slouch/curl up/sit with her knees under her a lot as a child/teenager?

But you don't sit in one spot for hours on end at school, do you?

You move between lessons, go to break, go to lunch, walk between buildings, have PE lessons etc. Even when I was at school 15 years ago, we were encouraged to get up and move halfway through double/triple lessons.

Sitting in the same position, especially if it is not a usual position for your back so is requiring more work for your muscles to maintain it for say 50 minutes at a time over and over again throughout the day is enough to cause back pain. Sitting bolt upright is not “good posture” it is an unnatural position and would cause muscle fatigue and then pain to force someone to maintain this for hours and hours every day, even if having breaks in between.

Yes, lessons are normally about 40 mins long, apart from double lessons and some of those lessons will have been PE or food tech or drama or whatever, where moving around so its not like she was in a torture chamber.

Well this will be music to the OPs ears. Perhaps you would like to be the expert witness in the court proceedings?

But sitting in any position for long periods of time can cause back pain.
Three years on, it would be impossible to prove that it was sitting up straight at school that caused it, and not the hours most teenagers spend slouched on their beds or in front of the TV at home.

Sitting with your legs curled up under you, or slouching on the sofa with a laptop on your lap, or hunched over staring at a phone or a book are all horrendous for your posture and your spine.

I am literally quoting my wife who is an expert in this, OP has also been told by her GP that this is likely the cause of her daughter’s back pain, but you clearly know best!

Op, I’m going to have to disagree with you. I have back problems because I thought it was ok to slouch. It makes your core muscles weak among many other things. Now I have to sit up straight, I don’t have a choice, to get some relief and to help with my back problems and my sciatica.

After all these years, I realized there’s a very good reason for parents to tell their children to stand u straight and to sit up straight and it’s not just because it’s aesthetically pleasing. It’s imperative to our health and well being.

You resent the teachers telling your tall daughter to sit up straight and not slouch. You should be thanking them. She may have out of resentment exaggerated her position arching her back unnaturally when they reminded her to sit straight, and that may be where the back pain is still coming from.

It is very important to have good posture and to make it a good habit and then you don’t have to consciously think about it.

Well, according to your wife, sitting in any unnatural position for long periods can cause back pain - so how would she propose OP prove it was school that caused it, and not how she sat at home, or how she slept, or how she lay on her bed to do homework?

Yes it would be difficult to prove, but as her GP said being forced to maintain a single position for considerable lengths of time every day despite being in discomfort could cause chronic back pain, despite what most posters say.

Where did I say she could have a legal case and could prove it? Don’t put words in my mouth. I was posting what my wife said which was in agreement with the GP, because so many posters seem to think they know better than healthcare professionals and are berating the OP.

I didn't say anything about a legal case or put words in your mouth.

I was asking a question - how does your wife propose she goes about proving it?

Why so defensive, its you that sounds like you know best from talking to your wife. Who presumably wouldnt be so stupid as to say that its likely the cause of back pain 3 years later with all of the various factors involved like how she slept and walked and sat at other times or the times she wasnt even sitting down at school.

people really do lose their minds here sometimes.

The only thing that could have worked against your tall daughter is the height of the desk which might have been uncomfortable when writing.

But don't exaggerate about it being 6 and a half hours a day! An hour solid at most as there would be changing classrooms, break, PE etc. and then evenings and weekends as much slouching as she liked!

Had your DD had MRIs, XRays or CT scans to assess if there are other factors causing the back pain?

She doesn’t, I never said she did, that doesn’t mean it can’t be the cause of her back pain or that it was in some way healthy or beneficial for her daughter to be forced to sit this way, because it wasn’t.

They weren't really bad for organs either: this is a myth. Worn properly they were supportive and comfortable.

But OP's whole post is asking about whether she should take action over this.

All your posts say that your wife agrees that what happened to her DD could have caused the pain - so I was asking how she'd go about proving it, that's all.

I agree that three years down the line, nobody can prove anything either way.

six one hour lessons, and tutor time/assembly

so yes, often for 6 and a half hours a day, required to sit ramrod straight, and no, she wasn't "exaggerating" the posture, because it was impossible to, it had to be absolutely ramrod straight

so as far as proof goes, we have got the school rules, saying that, and our emails to complain, and the school response. And of course, we can speak to others from the same classes, who can confirm what was imposed

but judging by the responses on here, there doesn't look like it is realistic to be able to take legal action now

But you have never seen this child, or how she was asked to sit, how can you determine whether it was healthy or beneficial or not?

I think this is what people are taking issue with you for, the problem with some GPs is that they will be sympathetic and make quick comments about something and the parent or patient goes away with an idea that 'the GP said this was the reason for the problem'. GPs dont always challenge their patients, its more hassle for them to. There is no way without far more detail anyone would be able to say whether this caused the problem. But you seem to be very sure.

Because healthcare professionals are telling you it’s not healthy and it’s not beneficial and it absolutely can cause back pain and you are adamant they are wrong and you know best, based on what exactly?

Lost my mind 🤣 I’m also a HCP so I’m used to this tbh.

thankyou @Elsiebear90 xx