To think this woman should not be put in prison?

[Nooyoiknooyoik]

Bizarre and very unfair Link

It's utterly tragic.

I don't know the town but from the video and photos, I'd say it looked an awful lot like a pavement. Cyclists shouldn't ride on pavements, and pedestrians who don't want cyclists on pavements are not "territorial" - they're legally right.

It should be easy to tell if something is a pavement or a shared cycleway. It's shocking that the police couldn't agree whether this was indeed a regular pavement or not - they had time to research this. The fact they couldn't decide shows there is something very wrong with the town planning, making this an entirely preventable accident. If the police with all their resources don't know after spending time on the matter, how is a visually impaired person supposed to tell from a quick glance?

It doesn't look to me like Grey actually pushed the deceased, just scared her into veering off, but the detective who interviewed Grey did say that there was more CCTV footage that had not been released. Maybe it's clearer from that. This whole thing has gone to court, so there must be details we don't know about that make this more clear-cut.

Without seeing those details, I can't say if I believe this should have been manslaughter. It could just have been an accident. It's abhorrent that Grey apparently didn't call 999 and show remorse, but is that in itself a crime? There's a crime for not stopping at the scene of an accident, I think, but isn't that in relation to drivers? Being unpleasant isn't in itself a crime.

I feel for the victim and her family, and for the driver, and to a lesser extent, for Grey. All three of them had the right to safely travel from A to B that day, and this set of circumstances should never have been possible. The town planners have a lot to answer for. I think they need to look at cycle options and signage urgently.

I've said it clearly somewhere. From what I know I agree with the verdict.

The sentence is another matter, but I don't know the full details. The judge seems to have formed his opinion using spurious details like 'she should have known it's a shared path'. I'm not convinced it's a shared path at all, and even less convinced that she 'should' have know if it was, with no signs on it.

I'm not 100% convinced that's even relevant considering the circumstances but the judge obviously felt it relevant enough to mention it.

My own comparison of this woman's behaviour to my own autism is just an example of how people shouldn't be morally judged for 'disgusting behaviour' based on factors they have no absolute control over. Other autism experts on here can probably explain the issues better than I can. It's a bit close to home for me and I get emotional.

My own comparison of this woman's behaviour to my own autism is just an example of how people shouldn't be morally judged for 'disgusting behaviour' based on factors they have no absolute control over. Other autism experts on here can probably explain the issues better than I can. It's a bit close to home for me and I get emotional

Are you saying that if you are on the autism spectrum you have no control over your behaviour? And that if you’re triggered and swear and carry on people shouldn’t judge you?

Bearing in mind as well that AG is not on the autism spectrum?

As always with autism - it depends.

But generally no, I don't think you should judge.

I'm autistic, not an expert on autism. There are many experts on autism on MN who will no doubt be prepared to answer any questions on the subject. I'll just argue and tie us both up in knots. 🤣

Being judged for our actions and responses towards others is inevitable and ubiquitous though.

AG was shouty, aggressive with her gestures and sweary. This doesn’t engender warm social responses, our social reactions are instinctive and often protective.

you can’t be educated out of an instinctive social reaction although you may understand it better.

It's not her fault how other people react to her either!

That's a bit circular for my liking.

Ok, In light of the updated video evidence and the admission of shoving, I have changed my mind and would say the sentence is justified.
I still don't think she'll go to prison though ... the appeal will be successful and she'll have had a good scare, for what it's worth.

There was more footage, that was shown in court. AG also admitted in court that she made contact with the victim.

Regardless of what you think, she has been found guilty, by people with far more knowledge of the facts of the case than you. She will get out of prison in a very short amount of time and she will still be alive - and her victim will still be dead, and the motorist who ran her over will still be traumatised.

I am not sure what is problematic with my statement. Had I said that all people on the autistic spectrum or with mental health problems should have their liberty restricted, that would be unreasonable. No person NT, ND or with mental health issues who is a danger to others should have unrestricted liberty.

This. There cannot be no consequence for these actions.

It's not problematic.

Unfortunately the latest info released by the police from their interview reports she did actually make light contact.

Maybe there was more information in court that was not in that public video.

I certainly hope there was because the video was certainly not enough and the public is perfectly entitled to query what seems from that video to be an unjust outcome.

Maybe there was more information in court that was not in that public video.

Of course there was.

She said she "may have unintentionally put" out her hand to protect herself. Ms Grey believed she had made light contact with Mrs Ward.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-64747184

Maybe there was more information in court that was not in that public video.

I would be astonished if there wasn't.

What is unjust about the outcome?

Had she have not have crossed the pavement and approached her first, putting her hand out to protect herself wouldn’t have been need and wouldn’t have made any contact.

@Nooyoiknooyoik of course there was more thsn the video. Including setting out exactly the threshold for common assault (met whether there was contact or not) and how because that offence was committed that manslaughter threshold were met. There would as well be the impact statements from the victims family plus the driver (who has suffered really badly).

Sadly history is littered with the consequences of decisions such as these

She's already in prison. The judge refused when the defence asked for her to be released whilst an appeal was ongoing.

Icountallthebeand
I feel for the victim and her family, and for the driver, and to a lesser extent, for Grey. All three of them had the right to safely travel from A to B that day, and this set of circumstances should never have been possible. The town planners have a lot to answer for. I think they need to look at cycle options and signage urgently.

I absolutely agree with you, yet they or the transport and highways department have not been mentioned.

Impact statements do not determine whether a crime was committed or not.

It being mid-pandemic is no excuse. So when I was doing my weekly shop mid-pandemic and some people weren’t adhering to social distancing, would it have been appropriate for me to be aggressive towards that person, lunge towards that person (going against social distancing myself), or is it only excusable if you have a disability? Well, actually I suppose it is excusable in that minor situation, but for an action that caused the death of another person IMO is not excusable regardless of there being a pandemic, or regardless of someone breaking the law, regardless of anything unless it involves self-defense.

There are many people that walk around daily that have learning disabilities or cognitive issues that can go about their daily life without behaving in such a way. To paint them as people who behave in such a way as this woman did and that is out of their control and part of their disability is horrible. They are still compassionate human beings that no right from wrong. Even if she was child-like, children still no right from wrong.

What about if it was a child ‘breaking the law’ and riding a bike? Can you not control yourself then either? That’s very worrying. To be triggered so easily I mean. People are breaking the law in such minor ways daily, if you’re easily triggered like this then I hope you’ve mentioned it to a professional.

The video has rightly been cut. Because it would be gross to circulate a woman dying.

She engaged in dangerous behaviour that caused someone’s death. I cannot fathom why anyone would question whether prison was fair. Of course it was.

Exactly and re Obviously I control myself as much as I can, but that will never be 100%. I've talked to twat cyclists worse than this woman did. I've been threatened and even had a knife pulled in me for daring to speak up. if you'd been assaulted and the person who had the knife said 'I was triggered by her speaking to me' would you say 'oh OK, that's fine, no harm'? And you seem to be proud (and have an intense hatred of cyclists) that you talked to twats cyclists worse than AG did.