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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this woman should not be put in prison?

960 replies

Nooyoiknooyoik · 02/03/2023 15:31

Bizarre and very unfair Link

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
Mansplained · 02/03/2023 21:13

The opinion of a jury of one's peers is obviously quite dependent upon where you live:
www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-essex-62251542

aSofaNearYou · 02/03/2023 21:13

TheCatWithGreenEyes · 02/03/2023 20:01

@aSofaNearYou
I'm sure she expected the cyclist to hit her. Looks like she was travelling at speed.

So it would be common sense not to lunge towards them and potentially push them off the pavement, when there is fast moving traffic on the road - no matter how annoyed you might be that they're breaking a rule.

OoooohMatron · 02/03/2023 21:15

Yes she should be in prison. She might have well of pushed her in front on the car. She's caused the death of a woman, not to mention the trauma to the driver who hit her. She wasn't even sorry!

BrigitteBond · 02/03/2023 21:15

Blossomtoes · 02/03/2023 21:03

Won’t happen. There’s no money as the numerous potholes testify.

Show quote history

So if it's not been legally converted it's still a footpath despite what residents may think.

Grumpybutfunny · 02/03/2023 21:23

Mansplained · 02/03/2023 21:13

The opinion of a jury of one's peers is obviously quite dependent upon where you live:
www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-essex-62251542

They came at him with a machete and he defended himself how is that even comparable to pushing someone in front of a car!!! The pedestrian here was never really at risk bikes hurt yes but not ridden by 77 year olds!

Donnashair · 02/03/2023 21:34

WombsofWimbledon · 02/03/2023 20:52

Yes, she is apparently 49 and so you're correct that in this case, her disabilities (partial blindness, cognitive and mobility issues and cerebral palsy) are not age related. My mum's disabilities are age related. Still - disabilities.

To answer your second question, my mum might do so if they appeared to be approaching her at speed. That would scare her. She, like many older people, or those with disabilities, don't trust their balance when they perceive something approaching them in this way.

I think I made it abundantly clear in my post that I think it was an awful event and was explaining giving an opinion on what might result in somebody reacting in this way. Thank you for pointing out that if my mother did these things and someone died as a result, that she could expect to be charged. I think I worked that out. Rubbing my couple of braincells together, you know, thanks for helping me out there :) Still - I think it's ok to not see people entirely as BAD or GOOD and understand why things might have happened, even in horrendous events.

The woman in this case is certainly being punished. Conversely though - most cyclists who result in people falling or being injured, probably do entirely get away with it - even when they've yelled ON YOUR RIGHT in your ear two seconds before zooming by and are oblivious to a fall they've caused.

On the plus side, aggressive behavior on Mumsnet doesn't result into one of us falling into traffic - so, that's something.

Show quote history

So your mum would behave like this woman? Really? Then she should expect to held accountable, if her actions lead to someone death. She should expect people to think she is an awful person If she did this and walked away to finish her shopping while the person died in the road.

AG was probably terrified and couldn’t control herself? Do you understand you are essentially saying she (and your mum) are a danger to the public and can’t stop themselves?

Your mum is absolutely in the wrong to start aggressively approach people and shout at them, because she perceives they might be a danger to her, when they are not. She would be absolutely wrong to leave them dying in the road and carrying on her way.

Your mum’s disability isn’t an excuse to behave like this. Clearly you do need it pointing out. It’s not a justification. And the PA in your post doesn’t make that any different.

My Dp is disabled. My son is. So was my mum. and I would expect them to not behave in this way.

There was no danger to AG. She decided to create the dangerous situation herself, because she perceived it was her right too. It’s really that simple.

What if your mum perceives a teenager as a danger to her? What if AG had done this to a child or a teen? Would you be so sympathetic?

Would love to see some stats on cyclists being allowed to walk away after causing someone’s death.

ohyouknowwhatshername · 02/03/2023 21:35

dawngreen · 02/03/2023 20:39

udge Enright acknowledged the partial blindness, cognitive and mobility issues and cerebral palsy that Grey suffered from. You have not expressed a word about remorse until today in the pre-sentencing notes. I accept the explanation from the counsel and that the difficulty you would face in custody and afterwards are considerable.'
But in the probation officer's report read in court today, it stated that Grey has 'difficulty expressing emotions of any sort overtly, but does write them down'.
Her barrister said: 'That is her way of communicating the distress, remorse and empathy she feels for all the people involved and she showed these notes to the officer.
'She does not express emotions as you or I might, but the probation officer was able to be aware of them and the acknowledgement of the devastating impact her actions have had on all.'

I wonder what 'cognitive issues' means? If it means she has a learning disability then it doesn't seem right that she's going to prison.

However, it's dreadful of course for the lady who died and her family. May she rest in peace.

WombsofWimbledon · 02/03/2023 21:37

Donnashair · 02/03/2023 21:34

So your mum would behave like this woman? Really? Then she should expect to held accountable, if her actions lead to someone death. She should expect people to think she is an awful person If she did this and walked away to finish her shopping while the person died in the road.

AG was probably terrified and couldn’t control herself? Do you understand you are essentially saying she (and your mum) are a danger to the public and can’t stop themselves?

Your mum is absolutely in the wrong to start aggressively approach people and shout at them, because she perceives they might be a danger to her, when they are not. She would be absolutely wrong to leave them dying in the road and carrying on her way.

Your mum’s disability isn’t an excuse to behave like this. Clearly you do need it pointing out. It’s not a justification. And the PA in your post doesn’t make that any different.

My Dp is disabled. My son is. So was my mum. and I would expect them to not behave in this way.

There was no danger to AG. She decided to create the dangerous situation herself, because she perceived it was her right too. It’s really that simple.

What if your mum perceives a teenager as a danger to her? What if AG had done this to a child or a teen? Would you be so sympathetic?

Would love to see some stats on cyclists being allowed to walk away after causing someone’s death.

Show quote history

Oh my goodness.

NoBoatsOnSunday · 02/03/2023 21:39

ohyouknowwhatshername · 02/03/2023 21:35

I wonder what 'cognitive issues' means? If it means she has a learning disability then it doesn't seem right that she's going to prison.

However, it's dreadful of course for the lady who died and her family. May she rest in peace.

Show quote history

It was confirmed in various of the articles that she does not have any mental disorder or learning difficulties.

Just seems to be a violent, aggressive woman entirely lacking in empathy.

lljkk · 02/03/2023 21:41

Celia Ward's death ended 53 years of marriage.

LivesOnPigeonStreet · 02/03/2023 21:41

She deliberately pushed her into the way of fast moving traffic.

If she thought the bike was going to got her she could have stepped to the side. She can't just kill someone because she doesn't think she should have to move over. She didn't look in the least bit frightened. She looked quite scary.

Btjdkfnn · 02/03/2023 21:41

the people on the jury decided
their decision was based on all the available evidence
the woman is guilty of manslaughter

from a look at the video and audio, the cyclist should probably not have been on the pavement. However, that is absolutely no excuse for the pedestrian to startle her by shouting and swearing at her AND to get physical by making several pushing motions into the road and then actually making contact. Had the pedestrian not been there, the cyclist wouldn't have died. The pedestrian's actions directly caused the cyclist's death. That is manslaughter since it wasn't intentional. I don't have an issue with the verdict. I understand the pedestrian has a disability, but the court decided she knew that pushing into the road was wrong - in fact, anyone who does not know that it's dangerous to push someone into a road is not competent to be on the streets alone.

xogossipgirlxo · 02/03/2023 21:44

I was torn on this one, but she really acted in a terrible way. Could have stepped to the side. Scaring someone moving so close to high traffic is dangerous. Especially that she saw elderly woman on this bike.

BrigitteBond · 02/03/2023 21:50

Btjdkfnn · 02/03/2023 21:41

the people on the jury decided
their decision was based on all the available evidence
the woman is guilty of manslaughter

from a look at the video and audio, the cyclist should probably not have been on the pavement. However, that is absolutely no excuse for the pedestrian to startle her by shouting and swearing at her AND to get physical by making several pushing motions into the road and then actually making contact. Had the pedestrian not been there, the cyclist wouldn't have died. The pedestrian's actions directly caused the cyclist's death. That is manslaughter since it wasn't intentional. I don't have an issue with the verdict. I understand the pedestrian has a disability, but the court decided she knew that pushing into the road was wrong - in fact, anyone who does not know that it's dangerous to push someone into a road is not competent to be on the streets alone.

but the court decided she knew that pushing into the road was wrong - in fact, anyone who does not know that it's dangerous to push someone into a road is not competent to be on the streets alone

Well if that's what the court decided they haven't told us that. There's been no mention of her being accused or found guilty of pushing the cyclist.

Btjdkfnn · 02/03/2023 21:53

It says she made contact. She wasn't stroking her, was she. She pushed.

MushroomQueen · 02/03/2023 21:54

My parents live just off the ring road, it's a narrow path and the road is always busy, its right outside a drs surgery where that is happening. I don't think the outcome is correct. That's not a good place for bikes to ride, as there isn't enough space for pedestrians and cyclists on that path. The cyclist should of stopped before and walked then got back on further down where there's much more space.

BreadInCaptivity · 02/03/2023 21:57

I think it's a fair outcome.

Whilst she didn't intend to cause the death of the cyclist, the pedestrians actions were directly responsible for her being pushed into the path of a car on a busy/fast road.

As such manslaughter is the right charge and imho appropriate verdict especially in light that she demonstrated no remorse whatsoever for what happened until the potential impact on herself became clear.

Whiteminnowfish · 02/03/2023 21:59

She pushed the poor cyclist off her bike on to the road and the cyclist died.

Lady then walked away and did her shopping.

FloydPepper · 02/03/2023 22:04

Familyiness · 02/03/2023 20:09

Honestly the lack of intelligent life here is astounding!!
I'm not the most intelligent person, far from it. But I have a basic knowledge of what manslaughter means.
So your actions have caused someone to lose their life, you may not have intended to kill said person, but your actions still caused it, hence manslaughter!! It's really not a hard concept.
If I run my car into someone on the road, who shouldn't have been there, ie didn't use the crossing, but hit them anyway. Does that mean I can say it wasn't my fault as they shouldn't have been there. No, it doesn't matter, if they should have been there, if your actions caused their death then you are guilty as charged.
Actions have consequences.

This. I’m shocked but sadly not surprised at the number of posts by stupid people who dont understand the law and are arrogant enough to think they know better than the people who have seen all the evidence.

TheNestedIf · 02/03/2023 22:10

Neil Greig from leading road safety charity IAM Road Smart, told MailOnline that the images 'do not make it clear that it is a shared use pavement as they would normally have signs and clear solid white lines down the middle of the pavement.'

Well, that's just not true. There's a shared pavement near where I live. It's 1.2 miles long. Only 0.2 miles of it is clearly divided with a white line and green surfacing on the cyclists' side. The rest of the path just looks like a normal pavement, apart from the occasional blue sign indicating shared use.

It's pointless anyway, because on the part that is clearly divided, the cyclists' half is usually full of pedestrians due to the fact that, for once, the cyclists got the half with less of the street furniture.

Stomacharmeleon · 02/03/2023 22:13

To me her aggressive actions caused the lady to fall in front of the car.
The lady didn't check to make sure the cyclist was ok although it would be have obvious she was hurt.
She didn't stop. She did her shopping.
She didn't speak to the police.
She hasn't shown remorse for the loss of life. So I think her losing her liberty for 18 months (I assume she will behave herself inside and serve half her sentence) I think she has got off lightly.
I feel sorry for her in light of her disabilities but we insist in treating people equally so I believe it's the right verdict.

Xol · 02/03/2023 22:14

userxx · 02/03/2023 15:43

It was horrible to watch. Hope she has it tough in prison.

You hope that a woman with partial blindness, cerebral palsy and cognitive problems who is losing her home "has it tough" in prison? How delightful. Why shouldn't the loss of liberty be enough punishment, as prescribed by law?

TheNestedIf · 02/03/2023 22:14

Having seen the longer clip, I am in no doubt the pedestrian pushed the cyclist.
She may not have intended her to die, but she certainly intended to hurt her and didn't care what happened next.

tommika · 02/03/2023 22:26

ancientgran · 02/03/2023 15:45

Considering the judge seems to refer to road users when the incident was a pavement and states it was a cycle path when the police and council can't confirm that I don't have great confidence in his judgement.

Considering that under the Highway code and the relevant legislation that footpaths are within the general references to ‘roads’ and that ‘road users’ includes pedestrians, the judge knows what they are talking about

www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/annex-4-the-road-user-and-the-law
^^
It is important to note that references to ‘road’ therefore generally include footpaths, bridleways and cycle tracks, and many roadways and driveways on private land (including many car parks)

www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/road-users-requiring-extra-care-204-to-225

The road users most at risk from road traffic are pedestrians, in particular children, older adults and disabled people, cyclists, horse riders and motorcyclists

tommika · 02/03/2023 22:28

ancientgran · 02/03/2023 15:45

Considering the judge seems to refer to road users when the incident was a pavement and states it was a cycle path when the police and council can't confirm that I don't have great confidence in his judgement.

The police and council were also unable to confirm that it was not a cycle path