Page 20 | someone tell me what crime has been committed?

Weefreetiffany · 2023-03-02T07:15:01+00:00

Baffled by this story https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11810311/Woman-49-convicted-manslaughter-raising-hand-elderly-cyclist-collision.html on what grounds are the prosecuting the pedestrian? It seems an absolute stretch to think that her gesticulating and “radiant her hand” at a cyclist for driving towards her on a pavement is wilful manslaughter? I can see how it’s a tragic, very unfortunate accident but how did this make it to court? The atmosphere is this country is so toxic to middle aged women at the moment- what is going on?!

Badbudgeter · 02/03/2023 12:37

Quveas · 02/03/2023 12:34

I have to agree - I suspect there may be an appeal coming in this case. To be honest, I am utterly sure that I have done the same thing myself (and almost certainly used the same words!). I am disabled, and you would not believe the number of times I have been nearly run over by idiot entitled cyclists on pavements. And I am talking here about adults with their fancy bikes and sporty cycling gear, not just kids or teenagers. It often seems that there is some kind of oddly elevated view of cyclists that they can somehow do no wrong, but in my experience they include some of the most dangrous road users going. Don't even get me started on how many of them around here go through red traffic lights!

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Cyclist round here like to cycle onto the pavements when the light goes red so they can cross with pedestrians then back on the road on the other side. It’s just a matter of time before a child/ elderly person is badly injured.

Quartz2208 · 02/03/2023 12:38

Quveas · 02/03/2023 12:34

I have to agree - I suspect there may be an appeal coming in this case. To be honest, I am utterly sure that I have done the same thing myself (and almost certainly used the same words!). I am disabled, and you would not believe the number of times I have been nearly run over by idiot entitled cyclists on pavements. And I am talking here about adults with their fancy bikes and sporty cycling gear, not just kids or teenagers. It often seems that there is some kind of oddly elevated view of cyclists that they can somehow do no wrong, but in my experience they include some of the most dangrous road users going. Don't even get me started on how many of them around here go through red traffic lights!

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Can’t see it for the conviction. The threshold for common assault is met regardless of whether there was a push and then that led to manslaughter.

Sentencing perhaps

Nolongera · 02/03/2023 12:38

Imagine reading a lunatic right wing comic like the Mail and thinking it reports news.

OneTC · 02/03/2023 12:39

It often seems that there is some kind of oddly elevated view of cyclists that they can somehow do no wrong

When you see the total sum of reporting and reaction to cycling stories you see them being favoured? Cyclists are about as popular as serial killers

GloomyDarkness · 02/03/2023 12:40

It seems bizarre that the police don’t know if the pavement is shared.

I'm in a city with a lot of half arse cycle paths - some look like normal pavements with poor easily overlooked signage - others like new ones near stations are bizarre come out of nowhere - disappear for 3 m when there a connecting bridge and footpath comes out into road currently no dropped cures then get parked on further down same road.

I would still expect the council to legally know where cycle paths were supposed to be even if there was confusion of the ground.

The Netherlands seem to have spend money making sure that road designs separate users and takes into account their needs - it doesn't look like we are prepared to do the same so I think situations like this are more common than you'd think and tend to get managed by people being bit more considerate and possibly bit luckier.

thedancingbear · 02/03/2023 12:42

In all this chat about the dangers of pavement cycling, it's worth remembering that nearly a hundred times more people are killed by motor vehicles driving on pavements than cyclists on pavements (source: www.roadpeace.org/pedestrian-pavement-deaths-2/)

I agree that cyclists on pavements are a nuisance, and an occasional menace. But it's important we don't get (further) drawn into Daily Mail anti-cycle froth.

thedancingbear · 02/03/2023 12:43

It often seems that there is some kind of oddly elevated view of cyclists that they can somehow do no wrong

-is the most obviously incorrect statement I've ever read.

TerribleInsomniac · 02/03/2023 12:44

Here’s a similar scenario
My mum was cycling on a wide pavement, a lady backs out of her drive and hits her. An ambulance was passing by and stops to ask is everything ok and driver says yes it’s all fine. Ambulance drives off. My mum is still on the ground. A school friend of mine is passing by and sees my mum on the ground ( the driver by this stage had driven their car back onto their drive and was in their house ) My friend calls an ambulance. Brocken hip, never able to cycle or work again.
The police did nothing, they didn’t even question the driver, it’s illegal to back out of drives.

They told my mum she shouldn’t be on the pavement anyway.
So similar situation…..my mum should not have been on the pavement but the driver ran her over, didn’t help and waived the ambulance off.
Why wasn’t the driver prosecuted….
My mum was told because she shouldn’t have been on the pavement anyway!

same country, same law.

CarPoor · 02/03/2023 12:46

If the police can't determine surely that means there's no signs? In which case one would assume its a standard pavement? Like either it's signposted as shared or it's not.

However I'm not sure it matters if it's a shared pathway or not, the woman is disabled and partially sighted. The cyclist didn't have space to pass her safely on the right and should have stopped to give way.

The pedestrian shouting and gesturing may have been unpleasant, it may have distracted the cyclist enough to cause her to fall off the pavement. But ultimately she was trying to continue cycling on too small a section of pavement

Just because someone is unpleasant or rude doesn't make them criminal.

My mum is disabled and to be quite frank I want to shout and swear at a lot of cyclists on the pavement. And runners. She has very nearly lost her balance on a number of occasions because people just don't give her the appropriate space or expect her to move out their way when she can't. I can totally see why someone with cerebral palsy might have a hatred of pavement cyclists

PlaitBilledDuckyPuss · 02/03/2023 12:46

TerribleInsomniac · 02/03/2023 12:44

Here’s a similar scenario
My mum was cycling on a wide pavement, a lady backs out of her drive and hits her. An ambulance was passing by and stops to ask is everything ok and driver says yes it’s all fine. Ambulance drives off. My mum is still on the ground. A school friend of mine is passing by and sees my mum on the ground ( the driver by this stage had driven their car back onto their drive and was in their house ) My friend calls an ambulance. Brocken hip, never able to cycle or work again.
The police did nothing, they didn’t even question the driver, it’s illegal to back out of drives.

They told my mum she shouldn’t be on the pavement anyway.
So similar situation…..my mum should not have been on the pavement but the driver ran her over, didn’t help and waived the ambulance off.
Why wasn’t the driver prosecuted….
My mum was told because she shouldn’t have been on the pavement anyway!

same country, same law.

Did your mum explore the possibility of a civil (personal injury) claim?

NorthernSowls · 02/03/2023 12:47

TerribleInsomniac · 02/03/2023 12:44

Here’s a similar scenario
My mum was cycling on a wide pavement, a lady backs out of her drive and hits her. An ambulance was passing by and stops to ask is everything ok and driver says yes it’s all fine. Ambulance drives off. My mum is still on the ground. A school friend of mine is passing by and sees my mum on the ground ( the driver by this stage had driven their car back onto their drive and was in their house ) My friend calls an ambulance. Brocken hip, never able to cycle or work again.
The police did nothing, they didn’t even question the driver, it’s illegal to back out of drives.

They told my mum she shouldn’t be on the pavement anyway.
So similar situation…..my mum should not have been on the pavement but the driver ran her over, didn’t help and waived the ambulance off.
Why wasn’t the driver prosecuted….
My mum was told because she shouldn’t have been on the pavement anyway!

same country, same law.

It isn't illegal to back out of a driveway.

GrasstrackGirl · 02/03/2023 12:47

My husband has Cerebral Palsy.

The woman absolutely deserved a custodial sentence, she pushed a cyclist into the road, it doesn't matter if the cyclist should not have been on the pavement, she didn't deserve to die.

Fucking off immediately after didn't help her I feel.

soleilblue · 02/03/2023 12:48

I can totally see why someone with cerebral palsy might have a hatred of pavement cyclists doesn't make her actions right

MichelleScarn · 02/03/2023 12:48

macbooks · 02/03/2023 12:35

The convicted comes across as having a disgusting and entitled attitude which makes her actions unreasonable. From the footage, she sees the cyclist coming and doesn’t move out of the way, but purposefully blocks the pavement with her large stature and starts swearing and making shoving motions, forcing the cyclist on the road in that very second. Was that appropriate at that very moment when cars were approaching at speed?

Regardless of how you feel about cyclists on pavements, the pedestrian was completely lacking in common sense here. She knows there were cars approaching behind the cyclist at speed, so forcing a cyclist into the pavement at that second would lead to a collision and potential death. If I see a cyclist on the pavement, it might anger me but I’m not going to start swearing or attempting to get them hit by a car. There’s other ways I can express my anger that doesn’t involve physical injury. This woman’s behaviour was extraordinarily bad. Then to swan off to the shop afterwards whilst the lady you just shouted at/shoved is laying critically ill after you forced her off the pavement?

Ultimately the court would have seen the full footage that isn’t cut short, and would have had a more accurate depiction of this woman’s actions to arrive at a manslaughter conviction. The woman looks like she is shoving the cyclist, even if that wasn’t her intention. Her hand gestures, particularly from the point of view of the cyclist, caused this collision.

Absolutely this and the fact that some are saying the fact that the behaviour of the pedestrian is being called into question is unfair and ableist is ridiculous.

CarPoor · 02/03/2023 12:48

TerribleInsomniac · 02/03/2023 12:44

Here’s a similar scenario
My mum was cycling on a wide pavement, a lady backs out of her drive and hits her. An ambulance was passing by and stops to ask is everything ok and driver says yes it’s all fine. Ambulance drives off. My mum is still on the ground. A school friend of mine is passing by and sees my mum on the ground ( the driver by this stage had driven their car back onto their drive and was in their house ) My friend calls an ambulance. Brocken hip, never able to cycle or work again.
The police did nothing, they didn’t even question the driver, it’s illegal to back out of drives.

They told my mum she shouldn’t be on the pavement anyway.
So similar situation…..my mum should not have been on the pavement but the driver ran her over, didn’t help and waived the ambulance off.
Why wasn’t the driver prosecuted….
My mum was told because she shouldn’t have been on the pavement anyway!

same country, same law.

It'd not illegal to back out of a driveway?

But yes interesting that the driver isn't prosecuted but a disabled woman is...

PlaitBilledDuckyPuss · 02/03/2023 12:48

Nolongera · 02/03/2023 12:38

Imagine reading a lunatic right wing comic like the Mail and thinking it reports news.

There are many other news sources for this besides the Daily Mail. I should think most people on the thread have Googled to read from their news sources of choice.

SpookyBlackCat · 02/03/2023 12:49

I can't believe she got three years for this. It's crazy! It just seems like a tragic accident to me.

Quartz2208 · 02/03/2023 12:50

TerribleInsomniac · 02/03/2023 12:44

Here’s a similar scenario
My mum was cycling on a wide pavement, a lady backs out of her drive and hits her. An ambulance was passing by and stops to ask is everything ok and driver says yes it’s all fine. Ambulance drives off. My mum is still on the ground. A school friend of mine is passing by and sees my mum on the ground ( the driver by this stage had driven their car back onto their drive and was in their house ) My friend calls an ambulance. Brocken hip, never able to cycle or work again.
The police did nothing, they didn’t even question the driver, it’s illegal to back out of drives.

They told my mum she shouldn’t be on the pavement anyway.
So similar situation…..my mum should not have been on the pavement but the driver ran her over, didn’t help and waived the ambulance off.
Why wasn’t the driver prosecuted….
My mum was told because she shouldn’t have been on the pavement anyway!

same country, same law.

i am sorry that your mum was hit but it isn’t the same law. This was common assault leading to manslaughter. It isn’t illegal to reverse out of driveway just not recommended

What is absolutely awful is your story is the driver not calling an ambulance and staying and helping your mum that is awful

Sagharbor · 02/03/2023 12:50

minou123 · 02/03/2023 07:21

The only thing that is toxic is the Daiily Mail

Inaccurate and sensational reporting and clickbait headlines.

Stop reading the Daily Mail

Hear! hear!

CarPoor · 02/03/2023 12:50

soleilblue · 02/03/2023 12:48

I can totally see why someone with cerebral palsy might have a hatred of pavement cyclists doesn't make her actions right

It depends what her actions are though

Swearing and gesturing is rude but not a crime, but if I have poor balance and poor vision and a cyclist tries to squeeze pass me on the right without stopping, something which easily could have resulted in the pedestrian losing balance, I would probably do the same tbh.

Pushing her onto the path of traffic is obviously wrong. But I can't see from the video what happened

Fladdermus · 02/03/2023 12:51

Just seen that the pedestrian admitted that she made 'light contact' with the cyclist. She pushed her, causing her to fall into the path of car. I can't believe people are defending this.

TerribleInsomniac · 02/03/2023 12:51

PlaitBilledDuckyPuss · 02/03/2023 12:46

Did your mum explore the possibility of a civil (personal injury) claim?

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Yes she did, especially due to loss of earning. She didn’t drive a car nor did my dad so access to shopping and everything became a nightmare for the rest of her life.
The solicitors she approached, and we did too, all said it would be unlikely she’d get anything as she was on the pavement.

I knocked on the house owners door to see if she’d accept liability as the police were doing nothing and was shouted at by her husband.

BrigitteBond · 02/03/2023 12:52

Quartz2208 · 02/03/2023 12:50

i am sorry that your mum was hit but it isn’t the same law. This was common assault leading to manslaughter. It isn’t illegal to reverse out of driveway just not recommended

What is absolutely awful is your story is the driver not calling an ambulance and staying and helping your mum that is awful

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I can't quite keep up with this thread so this may have been answered already.

You mention common assault? Did the pedestrian actually push the cyclist then? I've not read that?

Fladdermus · 02/03/2023 12:52

CarPoor · 02/03/2023 12:50

It depends what her actions are though

Swearing and gesturing is rude but not a crime, but if I have poor balance and poor vision and a cyclist tries to squeeze pass me on the right without stopping, something which easily could have resulted in the pedestrian losing balance, I would probably do the same tbh.

Pushing her onto the path of traffic is obviously wrong. But I can't see from the video what happened

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She admitted it. So whether you see it in the video or not is irrelevant. She admitted pushing the cyclist who fell off her bike into the path of car as a result.

ThighMistress · 02/03/2023 12:53

The pedestrian obviously should not have put out her arm, let alone left the scene.

But on a narrow path the cyclist should slow down or dismount.

If the pedestrian had toppled into the road I wonder what the outcome would have been?