Wow just wow. AIBU to think MH is a complete tw*t

[Moonshine86]

Words fail me

Easy to google but here you go Dec 2022

New YouGov tracker data finds that public opinion of trade unions is largely split. One in three (35%) think trade unions play a positive role in Britain today, compared to 34% who think they play a negative role.

Significantly, the number who think trade unions play a negative role has risen noticeably, up nine points since June.

100% agree.

Just proves how many decisions were politically driven rather than scientifically driven.

Matt Hancock - the one who euthanised 100s of elderly people? I can think of other words

I can't name any leaders of English teaching unions, no. Because I am not in England. I am well aware who the leader of the main Scottish teaching union was during the pandemic, and who it is now.

People who are involved at a high level in trade union are never ever going to see eye to eye with a Conservative government on anything. Because you wouldn't be involved with trade unions at a high/management level unless you were into politics and left-leaning.

No union membership then if they're all dreadful?

Let's hope you never need help or representation then 🤦‍♀️

news.sky.com/story/rising-public-support-for-unions-despite-widespread-strikes-sky-news-poll-suggests-12799325#

Public support for unions is increasing.

Nice to see a poll that shows teachers are one of the most publicly supported professions on strike too.

Given that the public don’t fully understand what unions do, I’m not sure why these polls are informative?
Unions aren’t there to shore up public opinion, they there to represent their members. As we’ve seen with these WhatsApp messages, pandering to public opinion is folly, especially as the public can and are mislead all the time.

What are you talking about? Money from the private sector?

And follow through that logic. Why would trade unions not naturally align with the conservatives?

On the general subject of the Hancock leaks, I'm quite surprised we aren't talking about the cat cull thing yet.

www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/hancock-britain-the-daily-telegraph-department-of-health-b1064121.html

It's a story that has everything.

I hate to break it to you but every single member of the teachers' unions are, in fact, teachers

But not all teachers hold the same views on things, which is something that tends to get lost when unions act as our collective mouthpiece and you get views such as ‘teachers think X’ when actually they mean the teachers who are a) in their union b) responded and c) shared the view of X.

In reality, there is a lot of variation amongst teachers on subjects like discipline, setting, exams and so on, and teachers don’t have a collective view re lockdowns and what constitutes ‘safe.’ Certainly I remember frustration being expressed about masks, face shields, having to move around the school while kids stayed in the same rooms, from when I was teaching in the autumn 2020 period. However, if you look on Twitter or on here, those views seemed to be a minority.

Even the recent strikes haven’t caused all that much notable disruption, in England at any rate - not sure about Scotland.

There isn’t a collectively held view by teachers any more than all mothers or all journalists hold the same view.

How do you think unions reach their positions?

They ask their members (in this case teachers) and go with the majority view. That majority is sought by voting.

So the attempts to disaggregate unions from their members is a bit disingenuous.

You don't need to worry about me. I refuse to strike also.

So no names, no shoutiness, nothing except “unions don’t agree with Conservatives”. Which is of course true, but nothing to do with your earlier assertion.

As a teacher I’d like to clarify a few points:

1. not all teachers are young healthy females
2. schools remained open for vulnerable pupils and children of key workers. Teachers staffed the schools
3. teachers worked throughout the pandemic under enormous workload and stress
4. decisions to close or open schools were not made by teachers or unions. Decisions to close schools were not made to protect teachers but to slow the spread. Huge numbers of people together obviously spread it quicker
5. teachers are not lazy or trying to avoid work. The constant belittling and insulting of teachers is in part, along with years and years of pay cuts, why it’s so difficult to recruit and retain teachers. It’s a demanding job with long hours- marking, planning, reporting, data etc all being done outside of school hours. Many teachers do the job because they care about your children and their education. I can assure you there is not enough financial reward for the long hours, politics, underfunding, behaviour, inadequate SEND provision we have to deal with

@kirinm teaching is not a wealth-generating profession; it's a cost on the country's balance sheet. It can only be funded from debt or wealth generated from other sectors. The unions were pushing for policies that crippled our economy and led to the current cost of living crisis so yeah... I don't have any sympathy for them now when they complain that their pay rises aren't funded. What did they expect?

Even the recent strikes haven’t caused all that much notable disruption, in England at any rate - not sure about Scotland.

The main union in Scotland is taking "targeted action" - striking in schools located in the constituency of the First Minister, her Deputy, the Education Secretary and the Green Education rep (as the SNP is in coalition with the Greens).

That means my kids were off Wednesday, Thursday and Friday last week, Tuesday and Wednesday this week on national action, and are scheduled to be off Wednesday Thursday and Friday next week.

The government made an offer which many teachers felt was a good one - the union refused to even put it to the vote and carried on striking.

And the best bit? The teachers who are taking part in the targeted action part of the strike are having their salaries paid for those days by the union. So they are losing nothing. Quick 60-90 minutes on the picket line in the sunshine if they fancy it, then fuck off home for the rest of the day for a nice holiday. Whereas those of us with children due to sit important exams NEXT MONTH are dealing with the consequences of their action.

So very little empathy for teaching unions right now.

Medal for you!

I am glad teachers are striking and judge the ones who are not. Education has been decimated since the Tories came into power and the only ones shouting about it are the unions. Massive underfunding, which is even worse in secondary than primary (I’ve been shocked since my child moved into Y7), and those who think that they’re doing better by remaining silent really are complicit in my opinion.

Do you want school funding to be cut further?

A poster was really interested in the info, I wasn’t going to bother linking

It’s a tracker of public opinion on YouGov. With anything on there you either think it’s useful or not but it goes for all polls not just those that don’t confirm views.

Whether unions care about opinion changing over time well that’s up to them. You’re right they don’t have to care.

Well, not always they don’t, @Believeitornot . Most recently, the Scottish union didn’t, I believe.

But the point I’m making is that those responses tend to be self selecting. So with the recent strikes - the NASUWT turnout was 42%. The NEU turnout was 54%. So if we assume around 50% of teachers did not vote - and not all teachers are in unions - then the ‘all teachers want …’ message is diluted.

I do realise they aren’t going to be preceding all messages with ‘all teachers in our union who voted …’ but still, the NEU don’t speak for me, I can categorically say that.

The teachers clearly want school funding to be cut further. Because they are holding out for more money for their salaries, from a limited pot.

Judge away. My place of work does not recognise unions in any case.

No they’re asking for payrises to be properly funded.

Honestly. You’re doing the Tories work for them. Next you’ll be praising the fact that education funding will be back to 2010 levels!