How do you discipline a "spirited" toddler?

[MooseBreath]

I am at my wits' end.

DS is 2y9m and an absolute terror spirited. I hate saying spirited because it's associated with parents who let their children run riot, but DS is seemingly feral. He has been hitting, pushing, biting, shouting, rejecting bedtime, and constantly challenging every single boundary, no matter how tiny. He has a relatively new baby brother (4m), but has been very good with the baby.

When he does something wrong, I tell him nicely not to do that and redirect him. If he does it again, I give him a warning, and a third time results in "time out". For this, I put him on a mat in the hall, explain calmly but firmly why he is in time out, leave him for 2 minutes, come back and explain again why he was in time out, and he says sorry then we hug and I tell him that I love him.

Over the past 2 weeks, nursery has told us 3/4 of his sessions that he has been pushing other children. Before this, it was only DH and I that bore the brunt of the pushing, and I am so concerned about his behaviour now impacting other children.

I have no idea what to do. DS is such a sweet, loving, funny, curious little boy. He is so smart. He can count to 30 (including objects), name and identify all the letters of the alphabet, speak in perfect sentences, and had excellent dexterity, so I don't think it's an inability to communicate. The terrible twos are making it so hard for my wonderful boy to be the child I know he could be.

AIBU to ask what to do? Boundaries are clear and set, DH and I are consistent and a team.

Yeah just get them the hell out of there. They do stop this eventually.

Time out doesn't work. He's far too young to understand why you're isolating him, all time out does is teach children to internalise their feelings, it doesn't calm them. He's had a huge life change in the last few months, he needs you to reassure him and help him deal with his feelings, not put him in the hall on his own.

Don't listen to anyone who suggests you take him out to the park etc to "tire him out more". It just builds up their stamina!!

Mystery2345
I know what you mean on stamina, but I definitely found mine were much more restless on days we'd been inside all day. The fresh air seemed to have magical properties for them, even if I just pushed them on their trike round the block or we walked the dogs.

I've definitely been that parent out in the rain for half an hour because it would buy me some peace and calm later.

OP you are doing the right thing by taking some of these comments on board. I got the 1 2 3 magic book last week and have been using it with some success for my kids so far, (they are older though). If anything, I think mostly parents are too permissive these days. I took my 8 year old to a coffee shop this morning and there was a toddler allowed to run around screaming. It is important to knock violent behaviour on its head, and instant time out or "that's 3" is a good way to go.

I have at least 2 friends who excused their toddlers bad behaviour by saying "he's a boisterous boy" (I'm not saying you are doing this) and now at 5 they are still hitting/biting friends in their reception classes.

I bleat on but love The Incredible Years programme. They have website. You can do it as a course or just buy the book or there's audio book on audible.
What I would say there's too many warnings.
Hit, kicking etc is straight to time out. If he does it at a party or friends meet up take him out and go home. Its painful to do but will sink in rapidly after first couple of times

I have at least 2 friends who excused their toddlers bad behaviour by saying "he's a boisterous boy" (I'm not saying you are doing this) and now at 5 they are still hitting/biting friends in their reception classes
I hate this. Of course a 5 year old is going to be hitting/biting/kicking/being very physical to others if their parents have minimised it for years and told their child it's fine because he's a boy.
I feel the same when people accept rude behaviour and minimise it as being funny and cheeky chappy, like it's normal to accept a 3/4 year old boy speaking down to his mother. It's like the adults have left the room.

Indeed and I've had to scale back play dates with one friend as a result. It is a shame because I get on so well with the mum but I can't have my children being hit with various objects. Even my 8 year old is wary of the 5 year old in question!!

Another mistake I have made (this is also covered in the 123 magic book) is talking to my kids like mini adults. They need sharp clear instruction/direction. And don't fall into the trap of arguing/negotiating. Again, this is something I have made the mistake of doing. My 8 year old is a skilled negotiator 😩

Don't doubt your own authority.

Leave him as is. Check back occasionally

Totally agree! 'Oh boys will be boys' bs!!!

I really don’t know much about discipline etc. however, taking what you’ve said about his counting, brightness etc. could it be that he not being stretched and is acting out due to boredom?

Yep, two-year olds are not mini adults. They have the intelligence of a bright dog. So you use one-or-two word commands - clear and direct, no waffley sentences.
You can respect their dignity as human beings, and have long 'conversations' to promote language development at other times of day, but when it comes to behaviour training keep it short and swift.

Keep trips out to a shorter length of time, and head for home before there is any sign of trouble.
It is not feasible to follow a supermarket trip by a stop in a cafe - its too much stimulation and too long away from home.
If she doesn't want to be in the cafe, the correct thing to do is take her home. Don't think of it in terms of "that's not a punishment" or "giving in" to the tantrum. You are simply giving her what she needs by taking her home.

It will get better, it just needs time.

He is a really bright child, which is a challenge in itself. It's very difficult to know his level of understanding and emotional development when he talks to me as a 6-year-old would. I don't say that to stealth brag about my DS clever, but but to say that I probably have very high expectations of him because he seems older than he is.

@MooseBreath I feel you with this thread. I have two the same ages as yours.

The whole ‘gentle parenting’ thing is apparently the only way to parent, anything other than that gets plenty of ‘theory’. I’ve looked into it and it’s just another theory that’s currently fashionable. I don’t know anyone my age who’s parents raised them this way, mine certainly didn’t in the 90s and I have a great relationship with them. My daughters behaviour got miles better when I implemented firm boundaries with a time out to be removed from the situation if it was going terribly wrong.

There was a gentle parent at forest school this week, her child followed mine around for the whole two hours pulling her hair and grabbing at her until she cried. My child said to him ‘we don’t pull peoples hair’ but she never said a word to her child everytime but just turned him round and sent him in a different direction for a few minutes. It clearly doesn’t work but my daughter clearly knew that there was a boundary and we don’t pull peoples hair.

@MooseBreath can I ask how this panned out for you a year down the line? As I'm having very similar issues with my toddler now...

OP You sound like a lovely Mum. This is just a phase. It is very common. Schools don't talk about discipline but behaviour management. Model good behaviour towards him. Be polite and praise fulsomely. Teachers are taught to praise 5 times more than reprimanding.
Most teachers I taught alongside believed that polite, cooperative children had lovely, respectful parents.
Don't shout, it is giving him a message that it is ok to shout.
Again, model good behaviour. This is just a phase. When he starts school his teachers will be telling you how polite and clever he is.
You are doing a great job.

It is getting better, but still a challenge!

DS is turning 4 next week. He still can be quite clingy and whiny, but he doesn't push or hit, ever. We are actually having him assessed for ADHD because he struggles to shift his focus and effectively shuts down in busy settings. It would definitely explain a lot of the issues we had in the "terrible twos".

It will all be ok.

This.

Thank you, really appreciate you taking the time to update and great to hear that the violence has decreased at least! I hope the assessment comes through quickly for you.