How do you discipline a "spirited" toddler?

[MooseBreath]

I am at my wits' end.

DS is 2y9m and an absolute terror spirited. I hate saying spirited because it's associated with parents who let their children run riot, but DS is seemingly feral. He has been hitting, pushing, biting, shouting, rejecting bedtime, and constantly challenging every single boundary, no matter how tiny. He has a relatively new baby brother (4m), but has been very good with the baby.

When he does something wrong, I tell him nicely not to do that and redirect him. If he does it again, I give him a warning, and a third time results in "time out". For this, I put him on a mat in the hall, explain calmly but firmly why he is in time out, leave him for 2 minutes, come back and explain again why he was in time out, and he says sorry then we hug and I tell him that I love him.

Over the past 2 weeks, nursery has told us 3/4 of his sessions that he has been pushing other children. Before this, it was only DH and I that bore the brunt of the pushing, and I am so concerned about his behaviour now impacting other children.

I have no idea what to do. DS is such a sweet, loving, funny, curious little boy. He is so smart. He can count to 30 (including objects), name and identify all the letters of the alphabet, speak in perfect sentences, and had excellent dexterity, so I don't think it's an inability to communicate. The terrible twos are making it so hard for my wonderful boy to be the child I know he could be.

AIBU to ask what to do? Boundaries are clear and set, DH and I are consistent and a team.

He's dealing with a lot of pent up emotions, he doesn't understand them, can't deal with them, and on some level, he knows he can't hit the baby.

So he is taking his frustrations out on everyone else.

Does he have toys he can bash and 'break'? DS used to have things like a big squeaky soft hammer, Duplo, trucks that fell apart when they hit the wall, and a teddy who's arms and legs were stuck on with velcro. I've made him sound like a monster.

For my four year old, some of his toy cars go away for a bit - just a random handful of the 1000 cars I'm always skidding round on. Doesn't matter if he hasn't been playing with them, he still hates the fact he can't access them. Haven't had to do it in a while, because the threat is usually enough. I do ask him nicely to stop first, of course.

Oh I forgot to say, while I do tell off my kids and confiscate stuff on occasion, I always try to make sure I praise good behaviour as it happens too, even if it feels like behaviour that should be a given.

So like as soon as you get a good day at nursery, OTT "thank you for being sooo nice to your friends today, well done, what a clever lad" and lots of cuddles.

I had something similar with my very verbal 2.5 year old. Another person saying they grow out of it, but god it's hellish to go through. We didn't have a baby so some of what we did might be logistically harder for you.

With DS it was biting and hitting. It really helped when I worked out the triggers, especially with other children. Basically he really didn't like other children in his space or interfering with the way he was playing - for instance if he had been playing with his train track and pushing the trains round in one direction his cousin coming in and pushing them the other way set him off. Which, having written that down, does seem ridiculous. Once I'd worked out that I brought it up at non-fractious times and discussed things he could do if he was getting that way (mainly moving to a different area of the room). I realised it didn't matter how verbal he was if he couldn't communicate quite complex feelings. I also was right beside him when there were other children so I was poised to physically intervene if I saw he was about to snap, and there were toys that I just wouldn't let him have out if other children were around (mainly the trains as he was so dictatorial about how to play with them).

Lots and lots and lots of repetition of "kind hands" "we don't hit" "we don't bite". If he threw a toy it was immediately taken away for the rest of the day. Hitting/ attempted biting at anyone else's house meant we left immediately, no second chances.

He was much, much worse with me and DP. It was a while ago now but I vividly remember holding this frothing ball of toddler rage firmly out of biting range and going "I love you very much, but I'm not going to let you bite me." I can't say all the gentle parenting things appeal to be, but Janet Lansbury has this "grey rock" thing where you're supposed to be a rock that all their emotions are just washing over, and that mental image really did help me stay calm when I was getting really frustrated by it all. He would usually be very very angry and then collapse in tears.

Nursery were brilliant and basically did the same as I did and made sure they were close at hand to intervene if necessary. They were really helpful at working out the best way to calm him down - turns out that he's a child that needs some time and space to himself if he's angry and overwhelmed so they taught him to do that. It really clicked for him, so we had this toddler shouting "I need time to myself" as he stalked off, which was funny but worked. When I saw that he was getting overwhelmed (usually when we had lots of family round) I'd preemptively take him to his room and just have 10-15 minutes of reading to him / playing with him there.

Imposing a boundary really just means stopping them from doing it.
In your situation I would try to work out what the triggers were to avoid the situation arising as much as possible. Then if he does hit you, grab his hands and say "no we don't hit" firmly. If you see him about to hit then physically stop him if you can. Watch him really closely - if you can stop him actually doing it, that in my experience is the quickest way to stop the behaviour.
If he is not upset and can be redirected then great. If he is upset, let him be upset until he feels better. Some children like to have a cuddle while upset others would rather lie on the floor and scream. I would stay close by though, in the same room. Once they are ready you can give them a hug and move on.
There is no point in punishment at this age. Sometimes there may be unavoidable negative consequences such as having to leave someone's house if your child attacks theirs. Similarly there is no point in expecting an apology or in explaining things.
I don't think sticker charts or other rewards work at this age either. The motivation has to come from within.

Gentle parenting is all about putting boundaries in place though. If I were you I would just be consistent so that he knows that when he causes physical, this will happen immediately. It may spark rage in him (it did with my dd) but she would then calm down and hug and move on. Nothing requires a lecture at this age. With her, she'd have to stop playing and sit quietly.

I think you are getting hung up on the theory. You just need to find something that works for your son and stick with it. It really doesn't matter if it follows the theory of whatever parenting technique, as long as you see improvement.

@mewkins I think I am getting hung up on it because if I reject the theory, I get mum-shamed. When I firmly told DS not to push at a playgroup and had him sit by himself for 2 minutes, a mum came over and told me I was being cruel to my son. On this thread, a mum has been told that her son will have a poor relationship with her because she took a toy away from him. In these instances, boundaries were clearly in place, yet no consequence was deemed appropriate for children who didn't simply follow the rules.

I know I shouldn't care what other people think, but when people tell you you're a bad parent, it certainly doesn't give you the confidence to do what you think is best.

1,2,3 Magic is a brilliant book! We use it as our school discipline program. Definitely worth a read.

Christ things have changed. You can stand up for yourself and tell her that how you parent is none of her business.

Kids are all different and I imagine it's those with placid children (at the moment) who are vocal. When you have a little fiery ball.of toddler on your hands though you have to deal with it as best you can.

Haha, yes, I was told off for hovering near my child and that it was fine to let the children sort out any squabbles themselves. That's not a parenting theory that works well with a biter! You know your son best, personally I went through a variety of things before finding something that (mostly) works for us.

Yes, I agree that some kids just need to be parented differently. I have three DC, and the first two were naturally calm and compliant. Tantrums were rare, and neither of them ever deliberately hurt another child. DS2 was a completely different kettle of fish! - stubborn, didn't listen to me, hit and pushed. I had to have very clear boundaries (this is acceptable, this isn't, this is what happens) and follow through on consequences every single time. It was really stressful tiring but it did work, and DS2 is now a kind, well-behaved 13yo. Honestly if you'd said that to me when he was 2yo I wouldn't have believed you!

When they cross the boundary you stop them, by removing them from the situation or physically restraining/intervening, whatever you need to do. Then when they inevitably get into a rage you stay calm and help them through it, while staying completely firm on the boundary.
You can also do natural consequences, like if you won't put your coat on then we don't get to go to the park.
With my son I've done a lot of angry management stuff, like he does "angry boxing" of cushions when he's in a rage, instead of hitting me or throwing stuff. Sometimes it doesn't work and he just wants to scream and shout which is OK as long as he isn't hurting anyone or damaging stuff. There's nothing wrong with anger as a feeling, you just have to help them learn how to express it safely.

My son used to hit and kick me a lot when he got angry. When I lost my shit at him, as a PP suggested, it only EVER made things worse. He went even more into fight/defensive/shamed mode and the tantrum lasted longer and was much more intense. There was no chance of a naughty step or time out as he wouldn't stay on it/in it. The only thing that worked was helping him manage his emotions better and making him feel loved no matter what, while also holding firm boundaries (which yes were frequently broken during that time, but I never gave in on them). He's now 5 and very well-behaved except when he's ill, and he's more literate about his emotions than many men my age!

I had a terror spirited toddler, biting, hitting you name it.He is 19 next month is at Oxbridge he is a calm, confident, clever young man.

This book is great: www.amazon.co.uk/Calmer-Easier-Happier-Boys-revolutionary/dp/1444753452

From an early years teacher I just wanted to say thank you Op. your son is behaving the way many children do at this age (its developmentally normal) and you're trying to navigate it in a sensible manner.
I work with many children with parents who don't... from 2-4 year olds who practically hold their parents to ransom to gentle parents who look the other way when their child is bartering someone because they don't want their child to be upset in public.

This will pass because you're working on it. When you see these friends from toddler groups struggling with children in a few years time you'll be glad that you nipped it in the bud and put in clear boundaries. It's not being mean, it will help him feel safe knowing where his boundaries are.

Op if someone judges you for disciplining your child it says far more about them than you. We all know how their ‘spirited’ kids are going to turn out with no boundaries!

You’re doing fine. You’ve noticed an issue you’re not happy with and are doing what you can to remedy it. That makes you a bloody good parent.

If someone comes over to you to judge, just firmly and calmly say it’s none of their business and can they leave. Thanks so much! Etc

No child hates their parent because they wouldn’t let them hit another child. It’s all part and parcel of growing up. And as a mother who lived through this with 3yo Dd who is now 6 and a very easy kiddo, it DOES get better and pretty quickly.

Can someone advise me what to do when a toddler is “kicking off” when your out? For example getting agitated, writhing out of your arms, screaming/ shouting, thrashing about on the floor. I have no idea what she wants at that time, she’s just sort of lost it. I could threaten to take her home but to be honest she doesn’t really want to be there so I don’t think that would be a punishment. It’s mainly in cafes etc which we don’t do often but sometimes grabbing stuff whilst out etc or after going to the supermarket. She’s had enough and starts playing up and all we normally do is just scoop her up and bundle her in the car but it doesn’t seem to be getting any better.

God I remember this phase very well. I used to get very stressed and sweaty trying to deal with also stressed and sweaty small person so I don’t recommend that.

What did work for Dd was distraction. So if we were in a cafe I’d take her to the loo to run her hands under the tap and use soap etc. If in a supermarket bribery with chocolate usually worked (I’m sure the gentle parents will not recommend this 😂) or just honestly anything that will take their minds off their madness for a second.

Tbh sometimes you have just get through the rough stage they’re in. It feels so vile when you’re in the midst but you will get to a day where it doesn’t happen, and then consistently didn’t happen and then you’re suddenly like god remember when…? And get to laugh about it. Hopefully!

What a silly thing to say. This is a toddler. Shouting and ranting at a small child (who isn't capable of regulating their emotions) only models an adult doing the bad behaviour that you're expecting the child not to do. What would scaring him achieve?

Keep doing what you're doing OP. Removing from the situation immediately for any physical behaviours. "We do not hit" "we do not push" "we use kind hands" etc. We used to do the thinking step. I generally sat with him. But then a small chat about what's appropriate, apologies and moving on. He's had a big change, has some big emotions and is right in the thick of being two. Be kind to yourself. He will grow out of it.

Tbh sometimes you have to just get through the rough stage they're in - I agree with this. When DS2 was going through his pushing / hitting phase I felt like I had tried everything and nothing worked. But in the end it just needed time. I kept being really firm and consistent, even though it felt like I wasn't achieving much, and then suddenly one day he stopped.

It sounds like a reaction o the new baby and a developmental change all at the same time. He also sounds extremely bright, which can cause big behaviour problems, it's definitely a double edged sword and he is about the age where they can show up. There's lots of advice on this thread so I'm just going to add to have a look at potentialplusuk.org/

Consequences should be natural consequences cos a lot of young kids don't understand or associate time out with their negative actions.

So, hitting, biting, slapping, remove yourself/the victim from the situation and explain that you do not like being hurt.

Throwing toys, remove the toy and replace with an activity with similar actions, so throwing things, let's play catch the ball instead.

Follow ad nauseum, until the message is received loud and clear.

Do you leave him upset in his cot when he wakes in the morning? He is still a baby himself and if he's awake he may well need you - especially because the new baby will have unsettled him. Respond as quickly as you can to his needs and a very firm immediate 'no' and take him away from anywhere he's behaving in a way which isn't ok - even if it's just to another part of the room. What I've seen with some friends is far too many words too. He is very young, his understanding is limited and more so when he's stressed. So 'we don't hit' is about all you should say not 'it's very upsetting for people when they are hit, can you imagine what that would feel like? how would you feel if you were hit by one of your friends?' (I have heard some friends try and use this sort of logic well before their kids could understand. Their kids were much more 'spirited!'. Also, really think about whether he's hungry. Often when my kids were getting grumpy at that age, a breadstick was what was needed.

Sounds like sensory overwhelm. Doesn't require discipline, just needs to be removed from that situation.