How do you discipline a "spirited" toddler?

[MooseBreath]

I am at my wits' end.

DS is 2y9m and an absolute terror spirited. I hate saying spirited because it's associated with parents who let their children run riot, but DS is seemingly feral. He has been hitting, pushing, biting, shouting, rejecting bedtime, and constantly challenging every single boundary, no matter how tiny. He has a relatively new baby brother (4m), but has been very good with the baby.

When he does something wrong, I tell him nicely not to do that and redirect him. If he does it again, I give him a warning, and a third time results in "time out". For this, I put him on a mat in the hall, explain calmly but firmly why he is in time out, leave him for 2 minutes, come back and explain again why he was in time out, and he says sorry then we hug and I tell him that I love him.

Over the past 2 weeks, nursery has told us 3/4 of his sessions that he has been pushing other children. Before this, it was only DH and I that bore the brunt of the pushing, and I am so concerned about his behaviour now impacting other children.

I have no idea what to do. DS is such a sweet, loving, funny, curious little boy. He is so smart. He can count to 30 (including objects), name and identify all the letters of the alphabet, speak in perfect sentences, and had excellent dexterity, so I don't think it's an inability to communicate. The terrible twos are making it so hard for my wonderful boy to be the child I know he could be.

AIBU to ask what to do? Boundaries are clear and set, DH and I are consistent and a team.

@lemonmama im the same as you! DD is 3.5.

She sleeps well, eats well and nursery staff say she is a happy, popular and confident kiddo.

Kids like boundaries, they want you to be ‘in charge’ because it makes them feel safe. Imagine being a 3 year old and your parent actually looking to you to impose your own boundaries and ‘figure out your feelings’ 🙄 it would be bewildering.

My DS2 went through a hitting / pushing phase when he was 2. The only thing that worked was, after one warning, to take him straight home. However, most of his bad behaviour was outside the home (at soft play etc) whereas it sounds like your DS behaves badly at home?

My DS2 is now a kind and gentle 13yo so don't despair OP!

Completely. Kids need boundaries. My son was an absolute emotional wreck 6 months ago and his behaviour was awful. We did lots of talking about feelings and I bought lots of resources which did help and we still use them now. But the main thing that helped him was me holding the boundaries. I'm not strict on him in the slightest just consistent. Hes a lot happier and calmer now day to day as he understands how to behave and isn't getting mixed signals all the time.

@TheSnowyOwl Undivided as in I don't do housework, the baby is napping, and I put the dog in the garden. I play with DS (usually cars, which is his choice) for 30 minutes with no distractions, twice per day. I think as a parent to a toddler and a baby, this is entirely reasonable.

Look, let go of the ‘regulating feelings’ stuff. He’s 3, he’s not supposed to be regulating his feelings. Toddlers tantrum, it’s their raison d’etre. The issue is when he is being violent, as is the case here. Then it’s a case of showing them that the consequences of hitting or biting make it not worth doing in the first place. 3 year olds haven’t developed empathy yet, and they don’t understand secondary feelings, so feelings chat is pointless.

If he hits or bites - remove him immediately from park/soft play and go home. Tell him hitting/biting is naughty and if he does it then you will be going straight home. If he hits or bites you, tell him it’s naughty, put him in his room and close the stair gate. Tell him you’ll be back when he is ready to say sorry. Raise your voice a little to show you’re very unhappy with his behaviour. Keep it simple and instant.

To fix the behaviour you need to address the feelings that are causing the behaviour; punishing the behaviour will only make things worse. No toddler ever started behaving better after being made to feel bad or ashamed. They might get scared into complying but I can see that's not what you want.
This approach doesn't mean no boundaries - it means firm boundaries held with kindness and an understanding of children's neurological development i.e. what they are actually capable of and what discipline will be effective at different ages.

I can't recommend highly enough that you read some Janet Lansbury and Laura Markham. I struggled massively with my toddler and their writings and podcasts transformed everything. I still go back to them regularly. Start with this : www.janetlansbury.com/2010/04/no-bad-kids-toddler-discipline-without-shame-9-guidelines/

Your son has had his entire universe change with the arrival of his sibling. Even if he's happy about it he'll be having massive feelings that he won't recognise or understand or know how to express. Given that combined with the crazy emotional whirlwind of toddler hood in general, it would be surprising if his behaviour wasn't very challenging right now.

Good luck, you sound like a really lovely mum and your son will be fine. Just do some reading from people who really know how toddler brains work x

This is COMPLETELY FINE! And more than most parents. I hate one on one play with Dd because she spends her whole time telling me off.

You're doing fine op. You just need to not be worried about upsetting him, sometimes you have to be a bit sharp with the little ones to not make them so bloody annoying.

I was very cautious of shouting at Dd, still am! But there’s a difference between shouting and being very firm. You have got to get on top of this, and you need to work out a way of being very firm with him.

Drop the nap!

Ok, I will drop the nap. I'm also going to ditch the 3 chances thing and go straight in with any hitting/pushing/biting. Otherwise, one warning and follow through. I've also emailed nursery to chat with DS's keyworker and see if we can figure out triggers

Good that you're going to drop the nap. Otherwise, as PP have said, less talk and more action (I fell into the trap of too much talking/explaining with my DC1 - I somehow thought that because he was so bright and advanced in so many ways, he was going to follow my adult reasonings - when it would have been more effective to say a short, sharp "no" to some behaviours.

My child was same, very spirited. We wrote some rules down on a poster which went on the wall... Got child to agree and sign it. These were typical behaviours happening over and over again. They were called zero tolerance rules... Instant naughty step! For first three days practically lived on naughty step, but it nipped in the bud a lot of stuff.

Your not being firm enough, time out isn't working, talking softly isn't working...you need to show your the parent and actually do something properly or he will get worse. Try to also do positive things with him which I know from experience can be hard with a baby around aswell. Bless you got your hands full but step up a bit more and be more assertive so your little one sees you as a parent to respect not a parent to walk over.

My now four year old was very like this at this age. He had also had a recent new sibling. We carried on calmly and worked with his nursery and he did eventually grow out of it. At the time it felt like it must have been my parenting but looking back he was very young and just learning how to express and communicate.

I will say that while we did a time out I always sat with him and he was allowed a cuddle while he calmed down (but no speaking until he was calm). You do what works for you and your child and try not to get too worked up by other peoples opinions, no one really knows your situation or your child.

Gentle parenting isn't working you need to lose your shit

Be briefer. Your approach is too slow (and it gives them time to actually carry on their behaviour before they stop it). The 1... 2.... 3... approach works well. Some children only respond to a clear deadline (and in my experience that is the same when they are much older too).

Does he have a lot of pent up energy? If he'd been kicking a ball for two hours or running or playing sport then perhaps he'd have less energy for playing up. Does he have sports classes at the weekend? Or do you/DP take him to the park to play football or some other sport? Are nursery doing running races or other activities to help use up this energy? I know he's only 2 but these are still viable ideas

@LolaSmiles When you say "remove him", what do you actually say or remove him to?
Just out of the situation. I'd be there to support co-regulation, then clearly say "X was not acceptable".
I didn't use naughty steps with my DC.

I also noticed you said he only gets 30 minutes of undivided attention a day. That seems low to me and makes me wonder if some of the behaviour might be coming from the perspective that any attention is better than no attention.

I misread your 1-1 time post so ignore my last part of the post.

What sort of attention and involvement does he have outside of those 2 windows?

Outside of the undivided attention, he plays with my while I hold his brother, we play fetch with the dog, and he "helps" me do things like washing up, laundry, and tidying. We also normally either go for a walk to a local field to play football/fetch or go to a playgroup.

This.

I wasn't sure if he might have been acting out if he felt he was on the sidelines once the baby was awake, but he sounds involved.

Sorry if you've said already but have nursery started to identify a pattern when the physical behaviour starts?

Mine kept their naps a bit later than others and when the nap was dropped we had a bit of down time in the day to recharge. It took time to embed the principle but it meant that by pre-school they'd ask for downtime if they felt they needed it, which was a nice place to be.

I'm afraid I disagree. All the children I know raised on SOS methods are now still tantrumming at 5 and at 4 were behaving in ways I'd not tolerate in a Reception classroom. I know people really rate SOS but I fundamentally disagree with a lot she says.

Bleese
I think the main problem with SOS methods is that quite a lot of people see the bits on social media, don't read the books properly and then cherry pick the easy bits.
I think some people focus too much on the word gentle and not enough on the word parenting, meaning instead of holding boundaries (which SOS does talk about), they're permissive. Permissive parenting will lead to tantrums and poor behaviour at 4/5.

Choosing to parent with authoritatively with respect and kindness takes work. SOS and other similar books are all about holding boundaries, the 'gentle' is in how the boundaries are held (eg. The adult remains calm, the adult supports emotional regulation, the adult doesn't humiliate the child, isolation isn't used as a tool).

I am all for firm boundaries and discipline, and for some behaviours your action needs to be swift and clear and devoid of soft chit chat.

But I do not like labelling children ‘naughty’ as a PP did. Yes his actions are naughty at times but he’s not even 3- he’s a big ball of emotion and energy and it doesn’t all get channelled info the right places. HE is not naughty.

I have a ‘spirited’ toddler, although quite a bit younger. He doesn’t have many words yet, but loves interaction and attention and is so outgoing and sociable. Sometimes, to get this, he will hit people. That’s because he is not able to say ‘hey guys, what’s up, want to play?’ Yet

Even so, I remove and correct every time, with a firm NO. And then show him how to approach nicely.

Most of these behaviours are down to not being able to communicate as we would yet. They get there.

Label a child naughty and at some point they will just think oh well, I’m naughty, that’s me, I might as well do what I want.

Anyway OP you actually sound like you’re doing a great job, sounds like you just need to be a bit tougher in the moment. Remember that often at that age, any attention is worth it for him, even when he’s being told off.

123 magic book is good, as others have said.

Also "how to talk so little kids will listen".

Agree that dropping the nap is a good idea.

A couple hours in so far and the "firming up" has involved a lot of screaming from DS. I think there will be a lot of headaches in the next few days...

I wouldn’t be adverse to putting earplugs in to be honest. You can still hear what you need to but it would make you more impervious to the screaming, which is good.