Pronouns annoyance

[crochetmonkey74]

I support every human being having the right to be who they are. This is not a bashing thread but I do want views on this.
Today , my friend messaged something about a non binary celeb. I replied with "I like him I think he's great" she then sent a text lecture about misgendering.
I actually didn't do it deliberately. My thoughts are these though: how can you insist on how others (who you will never hear or even know about) talk about you?
I agree with referring to people however they want you to in real life of course, am I just being a grumpy old bag? I genuinely want to get better at understanding the pronoun thing. What are your thoughts?

Well no.

Your bipolar friend has a medical diagnosis and your black friend is black.

Non-binary is not remotely similar and appears to be a fad based entirely on the ludicrous idea that people can opt out of sex using only words. People who claim they are non-binary are choosing to try and make themselves special by claiming something that makes no sense. Rolling your eyes at their insistence that you ignore reality when talking about them when they are not there is a normal reaction.

No. Just stop

@Psychosocial If you think it's ridiculous that we're 'upset' about pronouns, surely the reverse is also true, that it's ridiculous for people to be so upset they are misgendered that they call it "literal violence". Surely that is equally ridiculous? Why do they care what they are called when they're not there, to the extent they have a breakdown if they aren't called they/them or she/they? There reactions are simply bizarre. It shouldn't matter to them what they're called they get so upset at being misgendered.

As to it being 'harmless', ever heard of the boiled frog analogy? If not, look it up. We were told these pronouns were 'harmless' and would not lead to men in womens spaces. There is a thread in FWR about things that we were told - and even promised 'would never happen' and they have. And pronouns were the gateway to that.

Is putin the new hitler?

Not much of a friend to pick you up on such wacky bullshit . This gendering nonsense would be like completely relearning language because it's not naturally how we speak . It sounds clunky and unnatural.

I think this is wrong tbh.

If you referred to some celebrity with, say, a racist slur it wouldn’t become acceptable just because they will never see your text.

I agree with those who say a genuine mistake, rather than a deliberate misgendering, should not be met with a lecture. But your objection seems less about the lecture and more about the expectation that you’d respect people’s gender in a text exchange in the first place.

@Ladybrrrd It costs nothing to use manners, and everyone would rub along better if people used them. Pick your battles.

On the contrary, it does cost a lot. Look at my last post re the boiling frog syndrome. It has already cost women so, so much.

Also, it's ironic, your argument can be used for the non-binaries. Why does it matter? Why can't they pick their battles? Surely there are more important things for non binaries to worry about than what someone calls them when they're not in their presence? Time for them to pick their battles, me thinks.

So you don’t support Paige’s right to be who she is. You don’t respect her right to ask whatever questions she wants. You don’t accept she has her views. You only want replies that you feel support you in your views.

My view, your friend is a virtue signalling idiot. Next time you meet her bring up Sam Smith and see how long before she calls him he. Then you can tell her what to do with telling you how you use language. You’re not a disrespectful person are you, but she is ordering you about on pronouns. Twist that right back on her.

I genuinely don't understand this. How can race be a 'social construct' when there are genealogy tests that can tell exactly where you descended from? Asiatics are not a 'social construct' any more than Africans are or Nordics are. Race is a biological fact, not a social construct.

The same principle applies though.

OP thinks it’s unfair she would be expected to treat people with common courtesy in a text exchange in a friend which that person will never see.

That logic is totally wrong and those examples illustrate why.

We don’t just treat or refer to others with courtesy for their own sake. We do it for the sake of others who might share characteristics. Using a racist slur doesn’t become ok if you do it privately to a white friend.

If you are gender-critical your beliefs are legally protected under the Equality Act and you can't be compelled to use dissonant pronouns. So if you don't believe that men are women, you can't be punished for using normal English words to describe people in everyday life.

If you say that you have every sympathy with someone who identifies as 'trans' etc etc, but you find it tricky to remember their chosen pronouns, then you can be expected to use them and employers or others can put punishment in place like fines or require you to undertake 'training' if you don't.

Wondering if it's worth screenshotting some of these posts for when the thread gets taken down? 🤔

No, you can make guesses about which part of the world people are from based on different physical and genetic characteristics, but there is no such thing as biological races.

Somebody put it very well in saying that going along with grammatically-incorrect pronouns is the inch you give and then, eventually, male rapists in women's prisons is the mile that they take. After all, you accept Kevin (now Karen) as a woman, as you've been willingly referring to that person as 'she' - so why are you protesting now? What has suddenly turned you into an uninclusive intolerant bigot?

Exactly. It's the slow boiling frog in the pot analogy. After all if you're ok with calling a man a woman, and you accept he's a woman, why are you drawing the line at womens toilets? It's the gateway that leads men in our spaces. If you acknowledge their pronouns, then you have to allow them to use the facilities of their choice, then.

I don't believe in gender identity.

I don't believe non binary is a thing, everyone is male or female.

I believe people can dress as they wish but it doesn't change their sex.

My belief is protected in law.

For those of you who think this is "just like gay rights" and that feminists are "just like racists", let me introduce you to the concept of forced teaming. By Dr Em:

How the tactics of predators and manipulators, forced teaming, gaslighting, boundary violations and ignoring ‘no’, are used in the course of pushing ‘trans rights’.

uncommongroundmedia.com/forced-teaming-feminism-lgb-and-trans-rights/

Yep, taking away one of our first lines of personal security.

I hate to break it to you but feminists are a victim of this tactic by the right.

So the tests that show you have say, 53% African ancestry, 10% Asian (say, Vietnamese), 12% French and 35% anglo-saxon are false and don't exist?

They exist. Their accuracy is pretty dubious. www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-accurate-are-online-dna-tests/

They don't describe races, only loose geographical populations.
In the past, people didn't move around a lot, so you could predict that a certain combination of genes would make it statistically more likely your ancestors came from southern Ireland or East Africa for example. Not the same as race.

Thank you for pointing that out. I was just Googling to check the website.
It's worrying that a version of 'forced teaming' is being applied here too, ironically.

I like this and it's something I've thought about before. If someone referred to me as "he" I'd be rather puzzled and possibly think they were confused or unwell as I am very clearly female. So I'd think it odd but it wouldn't upset me because I know I am a woman and I look like a woman. But I guess these people who like to choose their gender have issues with reality and they are upset when others point out said reality.

Also your friend sounds tedious. One of my friends tried to correct me when I referred to Sam Smith as "he" and I just laughed at her.

Angler covers it.

I don't believe in it either. I don't believe anyone can change their sex and I certainly won't be calling SS a they, I'll call him a he, because he is one. He can refer to himself as whatever he wants, I don't have to do it also.

Ridiculousness. Lefty nonsense.