Page 6 | To ask if you agreed to submit to your husband's authority when you married?

GalaApples · 2023-02-22T18:55:03+00:00

If so, what made you agree? Was it a good decision? I recently found out that this is a thing among some evangelical Christians, in the UK as well as in the US. Has it worked out for you? How do you feel about the man being the "head" of the house, and have his decisions been good ones or not? How do you feel about him making the final decisions about your marriage and family?

UWhatNow · 22/02/2023 20:54

I’m a Christian (although not evangelical). I’m also a feminist. I suppose I did submit to my DH spiritually when we married, but I expected exactly the same from him as a lifelong partnership. I don’t recognise any kind of male superiority or ‘headship’ in our relationship. We submit to each other’s authority and have always been respectful about what we each bring to the marriage.

AlbertaAnnie · 22/02/2023 20:55

My husband can’t manage the grocery shopping without phoning me to ask random things so no way he could manage leading the household - hard no here 😂😂

MrsTerryPratchett · 22/02/2023 20:56

JesPrinee · 22/02/2023 20:45

I did this I'm not ashamed to say. But I'd had a very traumatic childhood, I knew no different. He was the wage earner and as such, got the say on almost everything. 20yrs later however, I woke up. I wanted to share responsibility & riches, life and fun. He said no. It became untenable and I divorced. I'd never go back to that now. Sharing of responsibilities and roles would've saved our marriage. We were two separate people under one roof.

I came on to say this. Most of the women who do this will have had an abusive childhood and/or abusive relationships.

A healthy, happy adult woman with no trauma issues wouldn't do this and a healthy, happy adult man with no control issues wouldn't want her to.

Dashel · 22/02/2023 20:57

Hell no. I accept that DH knows a lot more than I do on certain things and I will defer to him on those occasions. However that works both ways.

I did see something where the husband made all the wife’s decisions such as picking all her clothing and decided what she was doing that day and cooking or if they went out for food he would order for her as well as picking the restaurant and her outfit. It seemed highly abusive and took obeying your husband to a new level. I can’t imagine why anyone would want to be in that situation

Wellthatwasweird · 22/02/2023 21:00

MrsTerryPratchett · 22/02/2023 20:56

I came on to say this. Most of the women who do this will have had an abusive childhood and/or abusive relationships.

A healthy, happy adult woman with no trauma issues wouldn't do this and a healthy, happy adult man with no control issues wouldn't want her to.

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I had a happy childhood with loving parents, as did my husband. I've never been in an abusive relationship. My husband is pretty laid back. I have a sixth sense for controlling people and run away from them at the first stiff of it. Been married a decade and still haven't detected it.

singer15 · 22/02/2023 21:00

I have no idea if my vows included that or not. I have it on video, so could check, but I don't really care. DH doesn't expect me to "obey" him, and I wouldn't have married the type of man who would.

Wellthatwasweird · 22/02/2023 21:01

Dashel · 22/02/2023 20:57

Hell no. I accept that DH knows a lot more than I do on certain things and I will defer to him on those occasions. However that works both ways.

I did see something where the husband made all the wife’s decisions such as picking all her clothing and decided what she was doing that day and cooking or if they went out for food he would order for her as well as picking the restaurant and her outfit. It seemed highly abusive and took obeying your husband to a new level. I can’t imagine why anyone would want to be in that situation

Yeah thats controlling.

Panapan · 22/02/2023 21:04

MrsTerryPratchett · 22/02/2023 20:56

I came on to say this. Most of the women who do this will have had an abusive childhood and/or abusive relationships.

A healthy, happy adult woman with no trauma issues wouldn't do this and a healthy, happy adult man with no control issues wouldn't want her to.

Show quote history

Just because you don’t know anyone like this doesn’t mean we don’t exist. I didn’t have an abusive childhood. Nor did my husband. Neither of us have control issues. I agreed to say this of my own free will because of what I believe, not because of what I’ve been forced to think by someone else.

fantasmasgoria1 · 22/02/2023 21:06

No I did not agree to submit to his authority. We are equal partners in our marriage.

pinkpigletjoe · 22/02/2023 21:07

I believe it's called 'surrendered wives'. Sums it up.

ALongHardWinter · 22/02/2023 21:11

Do you mean as in the wedding vows used in religious ceremonies,i e. To love,honour and obey'? No,I didn't. This was back in 1983,and I had a bit of a disagreement with the vicar about it! My mum urged me not to have the 'obey' bit in my vows,bless her!

Sistanotcista · 22/02/2023 21:13

mbosnz · 22/02/2023 19:48

I didn't promise to obey - we both giggled inanely at the mere thought.

When it comes to making decisions we take mutual responsibility - as equal adults. It's saved an awful lot of blame games for shit decisions we have mutually made.

Having a penis doesn't make a person more likely to make a better choice.

Last sentence - exactly!!

Willyoujustbequiet · 22/02/2023 21:16

I kept my own name and gave my children my name too

So you can probably guess I wouldn't obey lol

NameChange2589 · 22/02/2023 21:22

I didn’t when we married because we had a civil ceremony and not a religious one. However I am a Christian and do agree with the sentiment.

The advice was given to practicing Christians for a reason. If the husband in the marriage submits to God and makes decisions that are rooted in love then it wouldn’t be scary for the wife to submit to those decisions.

It also doesn’t mean that the husband should make decisions without discussion and if both parties seek to be led by God in their decisions, they will likely be in agreement anyway.

Its difficult because there will be many people who say that they’re Christians but seem to know nothing about what love is and use passages like that as an excuse to be abusive. Similarly you‘ll get non-Christian’s who are far more loving to their partners and considerate etc

Its easy to see why people are skeptical of it all.

emmetgirl · 22/02/2023 21:22

What?

Willyoujustbequiet · 22/02/2023 21:26

MrsTerryPratchett · 22/02/2023 20:56

I came on to say this. Most of the women who do this will have had an abusive childhood and/or abusive relationships.

A healthy, happy adult woman with no trauma issues wouldn't do this and a healthy, happy adult man with no control issues wouldn't want her to.

Show quote history

I agree. It stems from abuse of some sort or mental health issues. No one would agee to obey otherwise these days simply due to one party having a penis. The internalised misogyny required would be staggering.

brianixon · 22/02/2023 21:28

Forty years ago we used the Prayer Book words, If memory is right:
I Said "With all my worldly goods I thee endow"
DW said " I promise to love honour and obey"
As we are still together, you might conclude that neither of us pushed either notion to the limit.
Perhaps we have not been tested in an extreme situation that might have required all my money to save the situation. We did come close, once.

DahliaMacNamara · 22/02/2023 21:35

I went to a wedding where this was harped on about as a salient feature of a Christian marriage. It was highly disconcerting. I knew the mother of the groom fairly well; she had the same kind of beliefs, and yet I know for sure she wouldn't treat her own DH as lord and master of the household, and he wouldn't fucking dare pull that kind of crap anyway. It was all very odd.

IVFbeenverylucky · 22/02/2023 21:40

All these Christians harking on about St Paul - what do you think about slavery?
Paul said children should obey their parents, slaves their master and wives their husbands.
Either defend slavery, or just admit the guy was clearly wrong about quite a lot! And as this occurs nowhere else in the New Testament I think you can safely ignore it.
And all this crap about it being okay because your husband promises to lay down his life. Um. And how often does that arise in a typical marriage? Whereas obey/submit is constant.

Panapan · 22/02/2023 21:40

Willyoujustbequiet · 22/02/2023 21:26

I agree. It stems from abuse of some sort or mental health issues. No one would agee to obey otherwise these days simply due to one party having a penis. The internalised misogyny required would be staggering.

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I have not been abused, nor do I have any mental health issues.

IVFbeenverylucky · 22/02/2023 21:45

Butterflyhelp · 22/02/2023 20:45

It's odd to think how much times have changedin a relatively short time. Obey was completely normal and standard in CofE wedding vows until 1980 when it became an option.

I seem to recall Lady Diana Spencer (1981) did promise to obey and there was a big hoo haa when Sarah Ferguson (1986) chose not to.

I honestly can't remember if I did or not!

Other way. Diana did not, which was normal at the time and had been for years. Sarah F did, which caused a fuss as it was so weird and odd.

Bbqchicken · 22/02/2023 21:48

If I said to DH that this is how we are working from now on, the first management/boss response would probably be to delegate all the decision processes to me just for an easy life, or he'd just leave!

I'm sorry but it is ridiculous to think that just because I dont have a D* between my legs or raging testosterone it does not mean I can not make a decision or reverse my car without guidance!

Although saying all that it would be nice to be deemed incapable and not have to work or carry any responsibility for a while!

Willyoujustbequiet · 22/02/2023 21:51

Panapan · 22/02/2023 21:40

I have not been abused, nor do I have any mental health issues.

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In your opinion.

Many victims don't recognise it until years/decades later.

akkakk · 22/02/2023 22:14

the passage needs to be read properly, it continues to say ‘as Christ’ - who died for the church… it is a model of servant leadership…

Naunet · 22/02/2023 22:16

Wellthatwasweird · 22/02/2023 20:00

Of course I have a direct relationship with God. My relationship with my husband is just based on the Biblical structure of marriage. It doesn't mean I have to wait for my husband to speak to hear from God. I just trust God to lead my husband on how to lead the family (the simplest way I can explain it). We have a happy family life. I'm a postgraduate level educated professional and have managed teams in the past, so I'm definitely not some vulnerable woman but this is an important part of walking out my faith, and I'm happy to. I know it's completely counter cultural. Jesus loved women and had a really special place for them in His ministry so I certainly don't feel like we are second class citizens, but that we have different roles in our marriage, which are both equally important.

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I’m not being goady, just genuinely curious. Why must the husband lead? What makes him automatically more capable of that? Do you ever think it’s simply down to what men decided they wanted? Why is it important that women submit to men if both are equal? A lot of questions, I know, I just find it so hard to understand!