Gentle parenting emotions, I don’t understand.

[CupEmpty]

Please can someone tell me if I’m getting this wrong, or what the hell im ‘supposed’ to be doing. I don’t get gentle parenting but am trying to see if it helps manage my toddler (2.5yrs) emotional outbursts.

I read a Janet Lansbury post about what to do when a child has a meltdown. She used an example of a child needing a physical outlet for their frustrations and so used to rip up bits of paper. The mum kept stacks of paper ready for the child to rip up to prevent her lashing out physically. The mum thought this was successful and made a comment about how she is the same and uses a baseball bat when she’s frustrated. Now this to me is not emotionally healthy.

my question is - with gentle parenting and acknowledging the emotions and allowing them to flood out, not quietening them, are we just teaching our children that they are entitled to scream and shout when they feel upset?

How do I get my toddler to calm down and quieten down, as if I say ‘calm down’ then I’m repressing her emotions. Does that make sense? What am I missing?

YANBU. I guess I'm not the reply you want as I don't subscribe to gentle parenting, but I think it's very important that we all learn to deal with our emotions in healthy ways that don't impact on others.

We all know the colleagues, friends and family members who haven't learned this.

Tearing paper seems like such a destructive thing to encourage! If my DC ripped the page of a book because they were angry I'd go through them, but an old shopping list is ok? That distinction seems a bit much for an upset preschooler to grasp.

the ripping paper was described as a positive thing because it was seen as a harmless outlet for physical anger, and the mum kept special paper ready to give her. I get that it’s better than hitting, but when do you stop with the paper ripping? Do you just wait for the child to get older?

im genuinely trying to learn, not being goady. I understand if you minimise their feelings “you’re ok/ it wasn’t that bad etc” then they might feel dismissed, makes sense. So you acknowledge the feeling “i see you’re upset” and let the tidal wave of emotion run its course. Then what? How is them letting it all out going to help them learn they can’t go beserk because her cup is the wrong colour? Happy to be corrected as I’m obviously missing something.

How do I validate the emotion without validating the reaction, I suppose is what I’m asking.

Try following big little feelings on insta - they often have good things.

Part of gentle parenting is getting your child to recognise the emotion and help them to deal with it better. When they’re screaming, no new information or teaching or discipline is going to go in.

When this happens with mine, I am firm on whatever boundary that upsets them, I sit low and I do big breaths for a bit before encouraging them to join me. Soon after I’ll get them doing something like colouring or playdoh and bring up the incident, “it’s ok to feel angry but not ok to hit/scream/break stuff”.
”Next time you feel angry, maybe we could do big breaths, come and get me to help or walk about or have a sit on your own?”

Then I sort of get him to talk it back to me.

Recently he hit his brother for taking a toy and we went through the sequence above, the next day he came to me and asked for it back. It slowly begins to work!

I get it with hitting etc as it’s a clear boundary but hers are emotional meltdowns, that’s what I’m trying to deal with. She gets very very upset/ hysterical, over little things. So there’s no boundary to hold, if that makes sense .I do already follow big little feelings, it’s mentioned to death on here but to be honest I don’t get the hype.

This sounds counter intuitive to me. Enabling the destruction of something because a cup is the wrong colour is just ridiculous. It doesn't matter how harmless the paper tearing seems, it's still giving the message that it's okay to tantrum and lash out because something isn't to your liking. I think it's healthier to teach children that they need to get a grip and deal with inconvenient and uncomfortable things because they're going to face a lifetime of these things. I used to sit mine somewhere very quiet until they'd managed to calm down. Children can't differentiate between rubbish paper and important documents or a pillow and the cat. If they have excess energy let them run it off outside or kick a ball around.

Yeah I definitely don’t agree with the ripping up thing!

With the tantrums over small things, I’d suggest try the calm down thing and talk it over - it’s ok to feel angry but you cannot shout at mummy or whatever.

but, it all depends on their language skills too. My DS is almost three and I’d say it’s been working about 3-4 months

I'd be interested in this too. Some bits of gentle parenting make perfect sense to me, others don't. In general I don't prescribe to any parenting technique but logically meeting a child at their current developmental stage and helping them build the skills that match that stage has got to be a good thing. But likewise we still use the word "No" in our house as it's not always realistic to redirect a behaviour at the time.

In the example you mentioned I don't see how giving a less destructive outlet is teaching a child how to manage their emotions. Is that person you referenced particularly well known in gentle parenting circles? Maybe she's just not very good at it 🤷

In your particular example I think telling anyone to "calm down" is 100% pointless and counter productive. When has someone telling you to calm down done anything other than rile you up?

I use a lot of "I see that you're angry/upset but right now we can fix it cause I don't understand what's wrong. What happened?" With my 3.5 year old. Or "I can't give you the glass cup because it's dangerous, would you like a hug or do you want to be alone to calm down". Or if we need to go somewhere "I can see you're upset, right now we need to get to nursery or we'll be late. I can't (insert unreasonable demand here) right now, but maybe we can do it after you get home this evening. We do need to leave now though, let's go (I will physically pick him up and move him somewhere if required)". Then it's trying to create better routines in places where there are regular conflicts/issues. So getting ready and getting out of the house caused tension for awhile cause he wanted to watch TV. So we did a visual routine of his morning which ended with him watching TV once he was ready. That motivated him to get ready as quickly as possible cause he knew what came at the end and was motivated by it.

I don't know if that's gentle parenting or not though 🤷 or if it's at all helpful. We don't shout, we don't hit. But we do say no and have punishments/removal of privilege if reason doesn't work. We just try to always explain why, try and demonstrate better options, give them a chance to make a good decision and just generally set things up so the kids (3.5 and 1.5) are more likely to succeed within reasonable expectations.

Toddler tantrums with mine were usually because the child was over tired, over stimulated, bored or hungry. No amount of tearing up paper was going to fix those issues. Running up and down the garden with the dog whilst I prepared a quick snack, followed by a cuddle nap solved pretty much every problem - at least with the boy child!

The message is two-fold:

1. Your emotions are valid
2. There are appropriate and inappropriate ways to express those emotions

Far too often, people think that “gentle parenting” means allowing your child to behave however they wish, but it’s not. Screaming and shouting is, almost always, an unacceptable outlet for an emotion - that doesn’t mean the pain/anger/sadness/fear isn’t a valid emotion, it just means you need an appropriate way to handle that emotion. What’s “acceptable” varies from parent to parent, child to child, family to family so you choose for your family. Some parents would have no issue with tearing paper as an outlet, some would.

I think the hardest thing some of these theories dont address very well is that not all feelings are valid. Feelings are unreliable, they dont have to dictate someones behaviour and children need to learn that.

@Courtorder how would you advise getting a toddler to calm down in a ‘gentle way’. And learn that screaming/ crying going forward is not ok? I feel if I tell her to stop crying I’ll be repressing her feelings.

That’s exactly how I feel @bellac11 her level of upset over a cup or whatever is not valid.

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Can't comment on gentle parenting as a thing.

But the way you help her calm down is to address what has upset her rather than her emotional outburst. So sooth/solve/remove the cause and bring your own calm to the situation returns things to a happy state quicker and better than anything imo.

My DH used to always tackle the behaviour, try to get the child to calm down, reached to the child upset with his own emotional response. Never helped and often made it worse.

I think giving the child something harmless to lash out at instead is still just a response to the emotional overspill rather than helpful.

Dh got a lot better as he sees my response working. I don't let their emotions become mine, stay calm, remove the stressors and help de-escalate.
Then when it's calm again I say stuff like, such and such was upsetting wasn't it. It all got a bit too much didn't it.
So reflect and validate and give them the emotional language to process what happened, it all helps them build self awareness and gradually improve the responses to one of managing themselves before they are overcome with strong emotion.

Do you actually need her to stop crying? I just used to wait for my toddler to calm down on her own. Any intervention just prolonged the whole thing.

I agree the ripping up is weird. If they were already being distructive, providing something 'safe' to get anger out on makes senses, but not encouraging destruction.

I used to give my daughter crayons and ask her to draw her upset. This generally generated either big scribbles or a crayon tossed across the room and more crying. I kept doing it for the big scribbles times.

Agree with @murmuration , sometimes being nearby sitting calmly until the storm has passed and then saying 'are you ready for a cuddle now?' is all that's needed. Maybe add 'those were big emotions weren't they, shall we find something else to do?' once feeling better is all you need.

That’s exactly how I feel @bellac11 her level of upset over a cup or whatever is not valid.

But for a toddler, it might be valid. (I still remember the helium balloon I lost 4 years old. I was devastated... nothing my parents could do would help, but I realise now it was my first experience of grief - yeah, over a balloon - so it was something that needed to be felt before I could put actual problems into perspective)

Something I found sometimes worked is to ask "Is this a small, medium, or big upset?" Then gentle logic, as everything is 'big', to relate things - "oh, so this no worse than when you dropped your sandwhich yesterday" 'MUCH WORSE!!' "so that was a medium upset and this a big one; we'll remember that" Eventually she would actually identify some things as 'small' or 'medium' upsets, and calm herself down.

With me, I say “use your words” or “wear does it hurt?” or specific yes/no questions to make it easier (“are you sad about the cup?” etc). If DS continues to scream or shout, I’ll say “DS, if you continue to shout at me then I’ll put you on reflection rainbow” then I’ll ask another yes/no question. If he continues then I’ll say “DS, you are on reflection rainbow. Can you please think about why I don’t like it when you shout and scream? And why it makes if harder for me for help you? If you continue to scream and shout then I’ll have to move you to the stormy rain cloud”. If he continues from there, then he goes on the stormy rain cloud where I’ll say “DS, I’ve put you on the stormy rain cloud because you’ve already been on the reflection rainbow and you’re still screaming and shouting. It’s hurtful to me for you to scream and shout because X and it prevents me helping you because Y. I’d like you to stop screaming and shouting”. Then I simply ignore until he calms down and we’ll have a calm discussion about what was upsetting him before, about why it’s not a good outlet for his feelings and I’ll ask for an apology for his screaming and shouting.

This didn't work every time, but it worked often enough to be worth trying. I would go and read a book aloud in the corner, or put on some beautiful music and listen. My kids never wanted to tantrum alone; they always wanted me there, so I figured I was the solution somehow. They would see me doing something calming, and about half the time they would decide they were more interested in the book or music than in trying to get a reaction out of me.

Sometimes you do just have to let it run its course. They're too small to have learned to regulate strong feelings and you cant teach them how if you can't do it yourself. I never reacted, if they were doing an activity I'd remove them.

@SoCunningYouCanStickATailOnItAndCallItAFox im not being goady, honestly. But isn’t removing the ‘stressor’ just giving in to the tantrum? For example she has a meltdown because I have her the wrong cup. I remove the cup. She’s learnt if she screams she gets her way?

It is valid. Have you never gone to the cupboard wanting a cup of tea in your favourite mug and seen that it’s dirty in the dishwasher and you have to use a different mug? You’d get upset in an adult way, a split second of sorrow and moving on. That’s because you’ve learnt how to regulate how to express your emotions but also because you know that your mug will be there tomorrow and that tea tastes the same either way. Children haven’t learnt that skill or learnt perspective yet. Children don’t know the cup will be there tomorrow or that the drink is the same from a different cup. So they express that same, valid feeling in an inappropriate way.

It's not usually about the cup though. It's usually about control or communication or choice or tiredness or hangry etc ... The scale of emotion comes from that not the cup.

@CupEmpty Ask yourself what she's aiming to get out of screaming/crying. Normally they're either attempting to elicit a reaction (hoping you'll give in to the demand) or they're just genuinely heartbroken as everything is the best thing in the world or the end of your world at that age.

I'd summarise what I do as offering comfort/commiserations to the negative feelings without giving in on what was presumably an unreasonable demand and without pandering/focusing on the trigger. Focusing on the trigger just extended the tantrum in my experience, in business speak it'd be referred to as focusing on solutions not problems. Over time the upset to elicit a reaction will naturally go away cause it just doesn't work. And they get better at managing disappointment with practice. They also get better at understanding that their request might not be met now but that you understand their point of view and if suitable you will offer the best alternative you can at a later date/time. So if you say "You can't have this cup now because of x,y,z but you can have it later", then build trust by making sure you give it to them later. That way next time you say that they will remember and trust you.

Just out of interest, what do you gain by her stopping crying sooner?

It's simply that you are not afraid of their emotions and you don't suppress them or invalidate them eg 'you're ok', 'shhhhhh'... you recognise them, name them and allow them to flow, then explain what you think just happened and offer comfort and soothing.

It's healthy to get emotions out rather than bury them (my parents generation are some of the most emotionally people I've met), it's much more likely a child will learn to self regulate as they mature. I doubt very much you'll be seeing adults in their 20s and 30s having a massive tantrum in shopping centre in a couple of decades time.