To want to pull my son out of nursery based on what I’ve seen?

[rsarw]

12 month old DS just started nursery in baby room. over the course of two settling in visits and his first day I’ve seen the following:
babies being left to it/ not picked up or comforted when crying, multiple times - I’ve had to resist the urge to comfort them myself. It’s possible they were eventually picked up after I left but it went on for a good 5 mins and staff seemed to completely ignore it.

Very little staff interaction with babies, staff are rarely on the floor playing or interacting with them. Babies are desperate for attention so swarm me when I come in.

little girl fell off a bike toy badly, hitting her head. Member of staff didn’t know what to do and had to be told by another multiple times to apply a cold compress. She then picked DS up and put him on the same toy
despite the fact he’s not old enough and his key worker had to take him off it.

staff heating milk too hot for babies, and other staff member noticing and reminding them they needed to check it. Baby could presumably have burnt mouth if other staff hadn’t stepped in.

DS incredibly thirsty on return from first proper day, hadn’t had his milk, assuming also hadn’t had water.

staff expressing slight contempt for babies eg X does that for attention, ‘they throw themselves at the floor to get
us to come over’

my son’s key worker hardly interacting with him at his settling sessions, not noticing/ leaving him to cry on the floor when upset (when I was there).

communication with me not good, when asking how the day/ session was or calling for an update they will just say ‘he seems ok’ or ‘he’s doing well’, then when I ask if he’s been crying it turns out he has.
DS distressed at pickup from first session, and unsettled all evening and night. He’s generally a very chill baby. I get it’s an adjustment but this seems a lot for just 4 hours.

staff seem very focussed on completing tasks eg nappies and meals and naps and app updates but not on general engagement with the babies. I get nursery is 3:1 and will inevitably be less attentive but it feels like the staff actively avoid the babies to try and get them to expect less and be more self sufficient.

basically my hunch is the kids get ignored and left to cry a lot and the staff aren’t great.

on the plus side, he’s apparently eaten lots at mealtimes, and he’s napped well there.

based on all this we’re looking at taking him out, despite the fact I go back to work in 2 weeks and we have no backup. Currently trying to find a nanny at short notice, although this will cost us some savings it feels like the only option until
we can find a better nursery.

Can you contact Ofsted? All of this sounds really serious, and not a “well that’s now nurseries are” matter.

Children left without a drink, lots of unsafe practices, children treated with contempt. They could at least set them actions to improve, even if they didn’t do anything more drastic

That’s not a normal or acceptable baby room by a long chalk.

And definitely pull your child out.

I didn't read it all - no need to. Take him out of there. Pass your observations on to OfSted.

Could be staff training issues and / or safe recruitment issues there too

I've heard a lot of bad nursery stories from friends and people who've worked in them.

It's just a job to a lot of people and it seems to attract a lot of young girls who let's face it, probably have no maternal instinct or experience - which yes, I think you need if working with young babies!

I'm sure there are some adequate nurseries, dare I say there might even be the odd good one. But there are LOTS of shit ones.

I think you know the answer but obviously do not send your child back there. It sounds horrendous.

100% pull them out and trust your gut. I'm currently happy with DS nursery but a friend went to an alternative and from day 1 wasn't happy, it came to a head when the child was seriously hurt and the nursery refused to acknowledge fault. She is currently putting them through an investigation

Trust your gut.

I knew our nursery was right for us when I went to visit before dc1 started and while we were sitting on the floor chatting the room lead cuddled a little girl to sleep - she was only in one day a week and wouldn't settle in the cots.

If they're leaving babies to cry in front of parents god knows what it's like without witnesses.

Nursery work is really hard and terribly underpaid, but in the good nurseries the staff truly care for the children and are supported by the management.

This is my thinking exactly Re nanny - it’s the only good option to enable me to go back to work as planned

Sorry I wasn’t saying having a nanny isn’t a good option - it’s a great option but it’s expensive and complicated (you have to employ them - it’s their salary + national insurance + they are auto enrolled in a pension you also have to pay unless they chose to opt out etc etc). And they can be tricky to get rid of if the fit isn’t quite right for your family. Most people I know who use a nanny/ my friends that are nannies have 3 children to make the cost more worth it.
So as you were saying you’d have to use savings I just meant that you could look at childminders too. There are some amazing ones out there.

Settling in is hard. Most of us are anxious and hyper-sensitive. That being said, you know you aren’t comfortable with the staff, so it’s a no brainer that your kid can’t stay there.

My child wouldn’t stay there either. I’d report my concerns to management and Ofsted.

Thank you.
can I ask for examples of the kinds of thing you’d hear from friends about nurseries?
trying to work out if we can potentially trust an alternative nursery, or if basically the nursery model isn’t fit for children under eg 3.

can you give me examples of the kinds of thing she witnessed? Absolutely horrific that the care they offer is so poor.

That sounds hideous.

My DC's nursery had a digital scan entry system, so all parents could come in at any time and head to the room without warning.

In the four years they were there I never witnessed anything but caring, nurturing behaviour from the workers.

It was a huge peace of mind and I always felt they were in good hands. You deserve to feel that way too, OP

things like bringing a child to an activity, letting them have it for two or three seconds, taking a photo for the parents, then dragging them away again and bringing the next child

Making children sit around a table in silence before a meal, no moving or talking allowed. sometimes this went on for 40 or minutes or so, presumably because the staff couldnt handle them moving around and made them sit at the table early

children with severe special needs, who obviously need specialist support, just running riot around staff who had no idea what to do with them

miscounting the children in a room and mislaying one - this was quite common, accidently leaving one shut in the room when the group went out to the garden or shut out in the garden when the group came in

making up accounts of accidents to explain marks and bruises that noone had any idea how had happened

some staff were loving, but some staff were just not, and I dont mean abusive, or malicious, just not interested in if a child was happy or sad, no warmth in them, no instinct to comfort a child, no affection.

It was just an uncaring environment - not what my daughter was expecting, and for her it was only a summer job when she was home from uni, and she didnt want to leave them in the kurch mid summer, so she completed her few months, but wouldnt go back there the summer after

I visited a dayavre and there was a baby crawling around the floor crying. The staff were like oh he is new, he cries unless he is being held. I neded up picking him up as could t cope with the crying. I didn't send my child there

Thanks for this.
god that’s terrible. And it’s all stuff I can see happening in this nursery. That’s exactly it - the staff aren’t villains, they just seem overwhelmed and disengaged. And it’s all about actions : nappies and meals and updating the app. They don’t actually care about the kids and it’s so obvious. I guess the good places have really strong support structures and leadership. At risk of sounding like a snob some of these women look one bad decision away from prison.
nanny it is, til I can find something better.

This would break my heart. This is basically what happened on Monday, I ended up comforting a little girl because no one was even looking at her. Worst bit is I know her mum and she thinks it’s a really good place!

What a horrible sad place for those children. It actually broke my heart reading that. Why are you even asking the internet this? Just pull the kid out and report to the relevant authorities surely....

In our baby room someone is always on the floor with the babies even if someone else is doing a nappy or making up a bottle. They have plenty of cuddles, interaction, and activities. Not all nurseries are bad and I'd definitely be concerned if staff are needing to be reminded about how hot the milk should be, all staff are thoroughly trained through CPD and in house. Baby room is especially important to have knowledgeable staff as the needs of each baby are unique and they aren't able to verbally communicate when they are thirsty etc.

There are plenty of good nurseries so if you feel this one isn't right then don't be put off altogether, visit a few more. But do speak to the manager whatever you decide so that it can be checked up on. Your baby will be unsettled initially whichever setting you decide on as they aren't used to being away from you and the new care givers for a while.

You’ve seen enough…. Pick up your child and run!!! Report the nursery ASAP they sound like they are waiting for the accident before making changes

She said she had a hunch... everyone else has mentioned gut and instincts.

You've singled me out on threads before to tell me I'm wrong. I'm not sure why or what I've done to upset you?

How do you know they ate and slept well? They probably didn't if its just from what they say. My ds's nursery says he eats everything and he comes home starving and as soon as he started talking said he didn't eat anything!

sorry, nothing what so ever, I dont even read names on the threads, so if I have replied to you more than once its just coincidence. sorry if I come across as abrupt, I dont mean to.

Absolutely this ^

NC for this.

Wont say my job or anything. But.. I wouldn’t put my child in nursery until they could talk. I say this as someone who has professional knowledge from the inside, including the highly rated ofsted nurseries which tend to be as crappy as the rest but with smarter management who know what buttons to hit for inspections.

I know lots of parents jump to say ‘my kid loved nursery’. This in a way maybe true. But that’s because if you’ve been going somewhere several times a week since 9 months old or younger then it becomes ‘the norm’ to have at best low level neglect. So those small kids will happily go into nursery as that’s all they’ve known.

In reality it’s very much like what the PP have said. Full of mainly very young female workers who are disinterested either way. Basic physical needs are met but that’s about it. No emotional warmth. The ones that do have emotional warmth tend to leave because of the environment.

You have to think how hard it is to take care of your own one baby who you love unconditionally. Now imagine being an unrelated 17 year old girl on minimum wage with 3 babies to care for!

You do get the odd good one. But even those I am sceptical of as from my experience the better nurseries just have better front of house staff and management. They know what parents expect to see when in the room. They know what ofsted expect. But the minute there are no parents about, the babies are put down and they go through the ‘checklist’ of tasks whilst chatting amongst themselves ignoring the children.
Im talking a worker ‘on the floor’ taking pictures of the kids with whatever toy whilst chatting away to their mate/colleague who is doing the app with a bunch of kids screaming. Ignoring the dirty nappies and dehydration.. so if a parent walks past they think ‘oh look they’re playing with the kids!’

Ive also known of staff to do the checklists of nappy, breakfast, picture for app for all the kids as quickly as possible. Then literally walk out for a cig leaving them unattended as their ‘work is done’ for the next hour! Then upload said pictures to look like that’s what they’re doing at that moment!

sorry I could rant forever. It’s actually upsetting to type this thinking of the babies/kids.

seriously follow your gut!!! Maybe look into a childminder until they’re a bit older?

But saying that, you don’t have another person to hold the childminder accountable or report them. So that also comes with issues.

It’s a minefield. Really it is.

If it wasn’t for my job I wouldn’t think twice like other parents as ignorance is bliss. But when you know, you know unfortunately.