to be sick of hearing the 'CLASS' card played on mn?

[mumzyof2]

Is it just me? Or is anyone else sick of hearing the class divide thing mentioned on here?
As soon as someone mentions disciplining children, supermarkets , etc, it turns into a big class debate!

Why?

Why, in this day and age, when there is such a MASSIVE range of people no living in the UK, do we still give a flying toot about peoples class?

So you don't do it Lapin, good.. but as you have just said PEOPLE DO do it, wrong/inaccurate or otherwise!

Class is based in culture rather than money.

Lottery winners dont just suddenly "elevate" from whatever class they were in because they can afford things they couldnt before.Surely that is obvious?

Aspiring to be MC/UC I think is really aspiring to have money. I think that is where the confusion comes in. The "majority" might think it is directly related to money, but that doesnt mean they are right, it just means they dont or wont understand the complexities of class.

Ethical living and class are not mutually exclusive either. Again, another common mis-understanding.

Nouveau, I thought but my French isn't very good. I'm just middle class and my mothers family were mostly working class and I have the chicken to prove it.

All societies have some kind of class or pecking order system however awful people find that that is so. All the major religions preach we are equal before God I think.

And money is part but by no means all of class. Accent is part of it. Attitudes. All kinds of interesting stuff. People move class too as my mother did - amazing at her funeral to see some of her relatives so different from us in just those 75 years of her life.

Class is mentioned because it's part of human nature to want to feel more superior to your counterparts. Therefore, in a small group, one person will emerge as a leader, then there will be a second in command and so it will continue right down to the person nobody likes much. It's a natural hierachy.

Think of the 2 Ronnies Sketch with John Cleese - funny as hell but the point is very very valid.

Class exists because people want it to. Even if you abolished it, it would still exist. People like to feel superior and they like to have things to aspire to. Just as the sketch says.

i think some people, conversely, like feeling inferior to their counterparts, so i don't think your human nature thing holds rhubarb.

i know people that i've come into contact with who positively revel in their low-level depressing criminality and proudly proclaim themselves the scum of the earth. also i know older w/c people round here who so wholly subscribe to that 'elders and betters' thing that they must enjoy it at some level.

i think class is about people having a place in society, and what's fucked that up is that the class system broke down just enough to offer a degree of mobility and with that came job insecurity and a non-working underclass. and as i've said before, it's not something i've ever heard discussed in Scotland really, apart from a few wanky uni students discussing their w/c credentials. i have heard is discussed often when i lived in London. however, if you're after religious bigotry and anti-catholicism... we've got that in spades.

Please do not introduce animal welfare into an already tense mix of issues.

imo no amount of discount is worth treating an intensively reared chicken the way they are treated. Anybody who can afford to should not be buying bargain basement chicken. No chicken should cost the same as a pineapple or mango.

and "nouveau", yes

it's basically all that bitch thatcher's fault, now that i come to think about it. [jock]

i can't help looking down on someone, this person who says "we done this" and "we was that", and she has more money than me, but i feel infinitely superior

Humility is never talked about much these days. Isn't going to be more made of Maundy Thursday this year - getting more people than usual to offer to wash the feet of others?

Bags i get my feet washed first!

Agree with duchesse's comment and have to shamefully admit to having an inverse snobbery sometimes. I am aware of it though and do wrestle with it. I think it stems from having a poor upbringing with a socially aspiring single mother (who I am very proud of btw as she worked really hard to get where she is) - never feeling like I quite fitted in.

I haven't read the whole thread (have you seen how long it is!), but I think those people who think that we shouldn't judge people based on class are unrealistic. We all have a comfort zone and prefer to stay in it, my family are fairly w/c and say that I was a snob even as a child. I don't see it like that, I just feel that I didn't fit in, I don't feel superior to them or inferior to some of the many upper class people I meet.

I also don't think its about money, if my dh and I lost our jobs and our house etc it wouldn't change who we are, the same applies if we were suddenly rich.

Take a good honest look at your lives, most of us know people of different classes, but how many of them are really good friends. The friends you are totally at home with tend to be of a similar class.

Scanner - it depends on how you define class. Background or aspirations? Isn't the line more blurry now? A builder (deemed w/c by some)can earn a lot more than a teacher/nurse (deemed m/c due to professional status). How do you define class? Income, aspirations, culture? Or all 3?

It's a mixture of things - accent, interests, how you dress, money, status, background.

I agree with Xenia, it's not about money. I seem to remember years ago when I did my sociology A level class was based on your job or in the case of children the parents job. So in your example the builder is w/c regardless of the fact that he/she may earn more than the teacher who is m/c.

No way whatsoever is class about money

I thought that was obvious

Where I live all the houses are £1m - £3m but not everyone by any means is the same class. Masses of ex builders made good etc. They have not changed class. It doesn't matter -it's all good fun.

Birds of a Feather! those chigwell people in a 'posh' house bought by bank robber DH

My accent can be a bit South London tbh though my grammar is usually good. By profession I am m/c. I'm not sure the distinction by profession is an accurate one. Also I don't think clothing is a reliable marker.

I find it rather sad that people look down on others because of the way they speak....which is why I strive to overcome my prejudice towards those with an affected accent. It's just as bad - but at least I am aware of it.

ah-HAH! an affected accent? perhaps it's just their accent, have you thought of that? who are you to say it's affected?

Lol - busted! You see - I'm prejudiced