Who is out of order here?

[fornical]

I run a healthy meal delivery company. I have several delivery drivers, however, having an issue with one in particular. My delivery drivers are self employed. Deliveries happen on a Saturday.

Long story short, I've had one of my delivery drivers for over a year now. I pay her £10 per hour and 45 pence per mile. She drives from Essex to London to collect the deliveries then back to Essex to deliver them every Saturday. She arrives to collect them at 9 am.

I text her asking for the next six weeks if she could be at pick up point at 8 am rather than 9 am.

She replied - 'See to be honest, it’s unsociable hours with it being so early at the weekend and having to get Amelia out of bed etc. I’d have to put my price up to £15 per hour. Let me know if you would be happy to go ahead with that or not. If you can’t though don’t worry I understand, It just means I’ll have to be getting up at 6.30 on a Saturday and my daughter too. Just wouldn’t be worth my while for tenner an hour xx'

AIBU to think this is totally unreasonable and out of the blue? How did she jump from £10 an hour to £15 because I asked her to come in one hour earlier. Am I being unreasonable?

How on earth can you say that’s a reasonable rate?

@fornical Approximately how many miles does she drive from her home to the pick up point, and how long does that journey take?

As she is self employed she should be the one setting her wages. £10 an hour is very low even if it meets minimum wage for that kind of job.
We have self employed people working for us and they would laugh in our faces if we said £10 per hour for a job of that description.
Think you have been very lucky to get any one to do that job for £10 per hour and 45p per mile.

You think £15 per hour as a self employed person isn't reasonable? Why?

It doesn't meet minimum wage as op doesn't pay for holidays. Is the equivalent of £8.92 per hour when that's factored in.

Yabu. Can't believe you don't pay for her to collect. Sounds awful very poorly paid job. I expect you wants out. Good luck finding someone else at that low pay. Don't think she be making much especially as using own car.

Was rushing around as I typed my post so didn’t word it great 🤦🏼‍♀️
With other expenses the driver needs to pay as well as to get to London to pick up the deliveries that the poster says they don’t pay her for it’s getting lower and lower. £10 is shocking.

I didn’t question £15 an hour. I questioned the poster who said they thought that £10 was reasonable but reading it again, it could have meant what the driver was asking for was reasonable.

Just don’t use her anymore. She has effectively shot herself in the foot as she has had a long standing arrangement with you and it’s tough times right now. You asked for an hour and she has asked for 50% rise - clearly taking the piss.

Not unreasonable to ask, you can always say no

Well, that's why you look for a job close to where you live. I've was a self employed truck driver for a few years and I only ever started getting paid once I was at the client's yard.

Am I missing something? I thought no-one gets paid until they get to the office/work place..? Otherwise we would all get paid the minute our alarms went off ? You have a start work time no matter where you live and it’s your responsibility to be at work for that time. You don’t have to take that job if you want something more local.

Not unreasonable, I think you’d struggle to find someone willing to work just on a Saturday for £10 an hour esp if it involves getting everyone in the house up at 6:30.

I think you misunderstood the post.

Could you offer to pay her extra for the earlier hours? She was happy with, or at least accepted £10 per hour previously when you needed her for 9am. Maybe offer to pay £15 per hour for the first 2 hours and £10 per hour thereafter? Will she finish an hour earlier?

Actually strike what I said. I see you don't pay her for the collection. Why is that? She is still working for you at that time no?

Was pretty balanced on this until I read you don’t pay her to drive from Essex to London.
i hope she finds a better job.

Make a counter offer? Would you pay £12 for example?

Did you miss that part about the driver being self employed? They are not “going to work” in the sense you mean. They are providing a service. I once engaged somebody to come to my house, collect and dispose of a sofa, if they want to factor in the travel time getting to me in their quote, then that is their prerogative.

Just don’t use her anymore. She has effectively shot herself in the foot as she has had a long standing arrangement with you and it’s tough times right now. You asked for an hour and she has asked for 50% rise - clearly taking the piss.

She's currently paid for only half of her working time and half her mileage, so increasing the existing very low payments by 50% still leaves her unpaid for a quarter of her time and expenses.

Remind me: who was it taking the piss again?

This is basically exploiting somebody who may not be great at maths or just isn't good at seeing the reality of things. All told, the woman is clearly paying for the 'privilege' of working, rather than actually making any money from it.

I know you get a lot of artists and hobbyists who effectively work for the love of what they do and don't really earn anything to show for all their hard work; but I highly doubt that driving from Essex to London and back to Essex would figure high on most people's passions.

My mate is a self employed van driver. He pays a fair sum (about £1300 a year) for subscription to a work portal where he can bid for work.

He always tries to get jobs back from where he's just delivered. This makes me think it's the norm to only get paid one way.

You are paying a very low wage indeed. I would put it up to £15 per hour and then you might get a bit of loyalty.

It actually makes me so angry that you are willing to use people like this so you can maké a healthy profit. But it is just a microcosm of Amazon etc I guess.

@AnnoyedFromSlough makes a good point. Take away tax etc £10 brings her to below minimum wage.

Tax is irrelevant. Everyone pays tax above the threshold, no matter their hourly rate.

I'm talking about the fact that there are no paid holidays, which effectively adds 12.07% (based on minimum holiday entitlement) to someone's pay.

All of the above, especially this bit.

Paying £10 an hour self employed is a disgrace. Not paying travel time to collect is a disgrace. Not paying any form of sick pay, holiday, tax, n.i. because someone only works four hours a week is a disgrace.

Minimum wage is a shameful amount to pay - and if you aren't paying her for her travelling time into work (bearing in mind it is at least 4 hours, and can be apparently up to 8 hours there and back if traffic conditions are bad) she is effectively working for between half to a third of that. Would you get your child out of bed at daft o'clock on a weekend for five quid an hour?

You should be embarrassed by the way you are treating her.