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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Who is out of order here?

427 replies

fornical · 20/02/2023 20:30

I run a healthy meal delivery company. I have several delivery drivers, however, having an issue with one in particular. My delivery drivers are self employed. Deliveries happen on a Saturday.

Long story short, I've had one of my delivery drivers for over a year now. I pay her £10 per hour and 45 pence per mile. She drives from Essex to London to collect the deliveries then back to Essex to deliver them every Saturday. She arrives to collect them at 9 am.

I text her asking for the next six weeks if she could be at pick up point at 8 am rather than 9 am.

She replied - 'See to be honest, it’s unsociable hours with it being so early at the weekend and having to get Amelia out of bed etc. I’d have to put my price up to £15 per hour. Let me know if you would be happy to go ahead with that or not. If you can’t though don’t worry I understand, It just means I’ll have to be getting up at 6.30 on a Saturday and my daughter too. Just wouldn’t be worth my while for tenner an hour xx'

AIBU to think this is totally unreasonable and out of the blue? How did she jump from £10 an hour to £15 because I asked her to come in one hour earlier. Am I being unreasonable?

OP posts:
fruitbrewhaha · 20/02/2023 20:41

YABU
£10 per hour for self employed is below minimum wage because from this £10 she has to pay herself any annual leave. You are also avoiding paying into a pension and sick leave etc. £10 per hour for driving her own car with only 45p per mile is bullshit.

Original poster
fornical · 20/02/2023 20:42

Disturb your family day? It's literally one hour earlier.

OP posts:
HiccupHorrendousHaddock · 20/02/2023 20:42

You're not unreasonable to ask a freelance worker to change her hours.

She's not unreasonable to say she will only do it for an adjusted rate.

BitOutOfPractice · 20/02/2023 20:43

I’d ask you why you’re paying a skilled worker that’s so vital to your business below the minimum wage (once she’s paid her tax etc) and the bare minimum in expenses. And why, in a cost of living crisis, are you surprised she’s asking more?

cone on OP this is not how to run a business. And yes, I’ve been running my own business for 25 years and would be embarrassed to pay so badly.

Financialfrustration · 20/02/2023 20:43

Soubriquet · 20/02/2023 20:33

Why isn’t it? Minimum wage is £9.18 an hour so she’s already getting more than minimum

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Only if under 22. It’s £9.50 of over 23, and it’s increasing to £10.42 as of 1st April.

MolkosTeenageAngst · 20/02/2023 20:43

Soubriquet · 20/02/2023 20:33

Why isn’t it? Minimum wage is £9.18 an hour so she’s already getting more than minimum

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Minimum wage is the absolute minimum, it’s not the benchmark for a good wage, it’s the benchmark for the worst wage! The UK living wage is £10.90 an hour so £10 an hour is a poor wage, it’s not really enough to live well. Plus if you’re self employed you don’t get any sick pay, holiday pay, employer pension contributions etc within that wage which means it’s even worse.

£15 an hour doesn’t seem unreasonable for a job where you are expected to have your own car. Is she being paid for the drive from Essex to London? If so then presumably to get there by 8am she’s leaving much earlier and I would argue the hours are therefore unsociable.

SnarkyBag · 20/02/2023 20:43

fruitbrewhaha · 20/02/2023 20:41

YABU
£10 per hour for self employed is below minimum wage because from this £10 she has to pay herself any annual leave. You are also avoiding paying into a pension and sick leave etc. £10 per hour for driving her own car with only 45p per mile is bullshit.

Exactly no employment benefits or protection. whatsoever for £10 an hour. Pfft.

Weedoormatnomore · 20/02/2023 20:44

Soubriquet · 20/02/2023 20:33

Why isn’t it? Minimum wage is £9.18 an hour so she’s already getting more than minimum

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£10 ph is low as she gets no holiday pay you have roughly 10% in holiday pay ! 52 weeks you get min 5.5wks off 20 says hol 8 bank Holidays. So to compare to min wage £10.09

yeetingbird · 20/02/2023 20:44

Well, since she's self employed she can set what rate she likes, you don't have to accept it.

Why don't you counter at £12.50?

£10ph for a Sunday morning is a pretty crap wage.

Original poster
fornical · 20/02/2023 20:45

No she doesn't get paid for the drive from Essex to London. Just from moment she collects deliveries

OP posts:
itbemay · 20/02/2023 20:45

Just pay her the 'unsocial' hour at £15 then rest at £10?

Dacadactyl · 20/02/2023 20:46

I think she's being fair enough. I wouldn't want to get up early enough to get myself (and a child) ready to be in London for 8am for a tenner an hour.

You can of course decide not to pay her the 15 quid, but I totally get where she's coming from.

TeaStory · 20/02/2023 20:46

YABU. You have her as self-employed, presumably to save yourself a bunch of money and pass the costs onto her, but you are trying to treat her as employed by setting her fee and her hours. You don’t get it both ways.

BitOutOfPractice · 20/02/2023 20:47

fornical · 20/02/2023 20:45

No she doesn't get paid for the drive from Essex to London. Just from moment she collects deliveries

You are massively taking the piss out of this woman. I’m surprised she wants to work for you at all. Cop onto yourself op!

Schoolchoicesucks · 20/02/2023 20:47

If "it's only one hour earlier" ie not a big deal, why do you need to change it?

She's not unreasonable for asking. When did she last get an increase on £10 an hour? If you can't afford to pay the £15 she's asking for, is there a compromise? £12.50 an hour? Or £15 for that first early hour reverting to £10 an hour? Do you have other drivers who could cover as reliably and are happy with the £10 an hour?

Taking offence at her asking would be unreasonable. Turning her down without considering it would be unreasonable.

UnfinishedUserna · 20/02/2023 20:47

fornical · 20/02/2023 20:45

No she doesn't get paid for the drive from Essex to London. Just from moment she collects deliveries

What the fuck Confused

fruitbrewhaha · 20/02/2023 20:48

And in a few weeks NMW is going up to £10.42

DysmalRadius · 20/02/2023 20:48

She's telling you that working under her current conditions is only just worth it for her. Anything that tips that balance makes it more hassle than it's worth, literally. Normally I would say 'negotiate' but I really think you should be considering whether you could find the money to pay better.

MooBaby · 20/02/2023 20:49

Then suggest £13?

2020hello · 20/02/2023 20:49

Minimum wage isn't much these days especially with a family.
I think it would be different if it was a 1pm slot and you ask for 12 noon but making her and her child wake at 6am every Saturday doesn't seem worth it when I'm sure she could find something more local for minimum wage.

If she's good and worth keeping do a counter offer of say 12 or 13 per hour.

Schoolchoicesucks · 20/02/2023 20:50

fornical · 20/02/2023 20:45

No she doesn't get paid for the drive from Essex to London. Just from moment she collects deliveries

Ouch. Not sounding like such a great gig for her is it? Get up and get child up super early on the weekend to drive for however long that takes before starting to earn only a tiny bit over minimum wage. And be treated as self employed. Would you be happy if she sent a substitute to collect the orders from you?

donutosaurus · 20/02/2023 20:50

I agree with pp - you are absolutely taking the piss.

Self employed means that she is having to cover her annual leave, any possible bouts of sick leave, NI and tax.

On top of this you don't even pay her for driving to the collection point.

If I knew a local company was doing this I would absolutely boycott them.

Perhaps you could deliver them yourself??

MelaniesFlowers · 20/02/2023 20:50

YANBU. Tell her the start time is 8am and £10 an hour (not at all unsociable hours btw) or not at all.

2020hello · 20/02/2023 20:51

In response to who is out of order I don't think anyone is.

Your business needs a different time so you have asked to change the agreed terms and she has asked for more money to make it worth her while for the change. No wrong or right I would say, just a business discussion.

Danneigh · 20/02/2023 20:51

London living wage is £11.95 per hour, but that includes someone having annual leave etc. £10 is too low anyway, she has prob just hit a point where its become more unreasonable so has decided to ask for a decent wage. Your choice to say yes or no. £10 is too low though, and you don't pay her for her drive to London either.