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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Who is out of order here?

427 replies

fornical · 20/02/2023 20:30

I run a healthy meal delivery company. I have several delivery drivers, however, having an issue with one in particular. My delivery drivers are self employed. Deliveries happen on a Saturday.

Long story short, I've had one of my delivery drivers for over a year now. I pay her £10 per hour and 45 pence per mile. She drives from Essex to London to collect the deliveries then back to Essex to deliver them every Saturday. She arrives to collect them at 9 am.

I text her asking for the next six weeks if she could be at pick up point at 8 am rather than 9 am.

She replied - 'See to be honest, it’s unsociable hours with it being so early at the weekend and having to get Amelia out of bed etc. I’d have to put my price up to £15 per hour. Let me know if you would be happy to go ahead with that or not. If you can’t though don’t worry I understand, It just means I’ll have to be getting up at 6.30 on a Saturday and my daughter too. Just wouldn’t be worth my while for tenner an hour xx'

AIBU to think this is totally unreasonable and out of the blue? How did she jump from £10 an hour to £15 because I asked her to come in one hour earlier. Am I being unreasonable?

OP posts:
ichundich · 25/02/2023 22:31

fornical · 20/02/2023 20:30

I run a healthy meal delivery company. I have several delivery drivers, however, having an issue with one in particular. My delivery drivers are self employed. Deliveries happen on a Saturday.

Long story short, I've had one of my delivery drivers for over a year now. I pay her £10 per hour and 45 pence per mile. She drives from Essex to London to collect the deliveries then back to Essex to deliver them every Saturday. She arrives to collect them at 9 am.

I text her asking for the next six weeks if she could be at pick up point at 8 am rather than 9 am.

She replied - 'See to be honest, it’s unsociable hours with it being so early at the weekend and having to get Amelia out of bed etc. I’d have to put my price up to £15 per hour. Let me know if you would be happy to go ahead with that or not. If you can’t though don’t worry I understand, It just means I’ll have to be getting up at 6.30 on a Saturday and my daughter too. Just wouldn’t be worth my while for tenner an hour xx'

AIBU to think this is totally unreasonable and out of the blue? How did she jump from £10 an hour to £15 because I asked her to come in one hour earlier. Am I being unreasonable?

Totally unreasonable. I think you've been lucky that she's worked for your meagre wage for so long tbh.

Tonkerbea · 25/02/2023 22:32

OP, I hope your conscience has been pricked by this thread, but I doubt it.

Pay a fair rate, it's what decent people do.

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 25/02/2023 22:42

fornical · 20/02/2023 20:38

Because £10 per hour to £15 is quite a jump

Show quote history

But 10£ is ok... If you were employing her...

For self employed it's a rubbish wage...

I wouldn't massively disrupt my early mornings for this amount.

CelestiaNoctis · 25/02/2023 22:57

She's reasonable to ask and you're reasonable to decline. It's an offer not an order. Find another driver who can do what you require or if she's so good then pay her what she's asking for the new terms.

MsDee1995 · 26/02/2023 00:20

fornical · 20/02/2023 21:24

I can't pay her annual leave, sick pay etc. She literally works for me for four hours.

I think that first... you need to decide which way you are classifying her... Employee? Or Independent Contractor? If she "works FOR you", and you get to decide her hours, duties, destinations, and delivery times, then she is your EMPLOYEE, and you have to pay her as such, (including the taxes/ins/pension, etc...) If SHE gets to decide those things, then she is an IC. If you are asking her to completely do what YOU want her to do, then you need to PAY her as an employee---PERIOD, and 10 is not cutting it....ESPECIALLY when you have her drive part of her route with no pay!

If this was any other job, I'd say, of course she shouldn't get paid until she arrives at work...but her work IS driving, and from the time she leaves her home, to come and do what YOU need her to do, then she is on YOUR clock my dear. And getting her little one out of bed an additional 2 hours earlier on a weekend morning, JUST to be where YOU need here to be?? You'd better be ready to shell out some HELLA BIG BUCKS, to make it worth her while! Otherwise, you might need to start getting YOURSELF out of bed, to make these deliveries. I hope you ladies figure it out. Good luck, and don't get into any trouble with the law, when tax time comes!!

OhcantthInkofaname · 26/02/2023 03:01

Then negotiate! Offer a compromise.

winningeasy · 26/02/2023 09:39

Try to meet in the middle?

Sydmum74 · 26/02/2023 10:55

You are a CF! The 45p mile has been set at that for years & does not reflect true cost even before fuel price increases. even £15 is not really enough, how much are you paying yourself an hour?

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 26/02/2023 10:59

Try to meet in the middle?

That's exactly what OP is doing: meeting the driver in the middle of her working day and only then starting to pay her.

afinishedkiss · 26/02/2023 11:06

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 26/02/2023 10:59

Try to meet in the middle?

That's exactly what OP is doing: meeting the driver in the middle of her working day and only then starting to pay her.

Bang on.

TirisfalPumpkin · 26/02/2023 11:12

She is nbu. That pay seems really low for self employed. Suggest give her what she asks, negotiate, or say no but expect people to leave for better money elsewhere.

Merryoldgoat · 26/02/2023 11:14

America12 · 20/02/2023 20:35

There was a similar thread to this before , from the driver's POV

Yes - I had to check the date it was so familiar

Merryoldgoat · 26/02/2023 11:15

That is a shitty wage for employed let alone self employed.

If it’s such a great deal find someone else to do it.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 26/02/2023 11:16

Does anybody have a link to the other thread that was started by the driver?

afinishedkiss · 26/02/2023 11:29

I would love to see the other perspective.

zingally · 26/02/2023 11:29

If you decided to change the arrangement (9am to 8am), then as a self-employed worker, she's perfectly entitled to come back and say "that doesn't really work for me, but I can make it work for an extra fiver an hour." That's how the market has worked for hundreds of years.
You can terminate the arrangement if you want, that's fine, but YABU to think she should just suck up a change in the contract.

Dinkleberg · 26/02/2023 11:34

Neither of you are being unreasonable. She is well within her rights to ask and you are within your rights to decline. 8am isn't unsociable hours.

afinishedkiss · 26/02/2023 11:39

Dinkleberg · 26/02/2023 11:34

Neither of you are being unreasonable. She is well within her rights to ask and you are within your rights to decline. 8am isn't unsociable hours.

It is on a Sat when you have to get up at 6.30 and drive to London and not get bloody paid for it!

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 26/02/2023 11:42

8am isn't unsociable hours.

No, but that's not when she would be starting work: 8am would be the middle point of the two-leg job.

That could be amended time-wise if OP instead hired somebody who lives in London, so they wouldn't need to start as early - but they would then finish their working day significantly later. Either way, it's still a two-leg job: Essex to London to Essex; or London to Essex to London.

Delatron · 26/02/2023 12:16

It’s not worth her getting up (and getting her child up) at 6.30am on a Saturday. Bullshit is that sociable hours. For shit pay. That hour does make a big difference at the weekend.

I think (apart from the shit pay) that’s my biggest issue with the OP - the ‘oh it’s just an hour earlier’ claim with zero understanding the potential impact on her employee and family. She’s perfectly entitled to say it’s not worth it for that wage.

Anotherselfemployedcleaner · 26/02/2023 12:23

I’d still be interested to know how many miles/how long it takes for the driver to get from her home to the collection point - she might live just over the Essex/London border, or considerably further away?

You can’t tell from what the OP said, because getting up 1.5 hours before you have to be at the collection point (regardless of whether it’s 08:00 or 09:00) doesn’t give any indication of what time she actually has to leave?

America12 · 26/02/2023 12:31

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 26/02/2023 11:16

Does anybody have a link to the other thread that was started by the driver?

I can't remember, it was a while ago. Definitely read this from the other side though.

rosesinmygarden · 26/02/2023 12:36

£10 per hour is not generous at all. It's pretty rubbish bearing in mind she's using her own vehicle and is self employed.

It sounds like she doesn't want to work earlier. Maybe one of your other drivers can do it for £10 ph.

Is she only asking for £15ph for that one hour? If so, and she's reliable, then maybe it worth it.

The problem with using self employed people like this (rather than employing someone properly) is that you can't dictate their hours or hourly rate and just expect then to accept it like an employed person might have to.

The advantage is that you owe them nothing in terms of notice etc and it's a very cheap way of 'employing' people. You're getting a bargain at the moment.

Mum0ntherun · 26/02/2023 13:26

The real living wage is higher than that www.livingwage.org.uk/what-real-living-wage.

I think she’s being fair to ask you.

Chiccaletta · 28/02/2023 17:13

Yes.
8am is not what she agreed when taking the job.
Can't you just pay her £15 for her first hour and £10 for the others post 9am...