Who is out of order here?

[fornical]

I run a healthy meal delivery company. I have several delivery drivers, however, having an issue with one in particular. My delivery drivers are self employed. Deliveries happen on a Saturday.

Long story short, I've had one of my delivery drivers for over a year now. I pay her £10 per hour and 45 pence per mile. She drives from Essex to London to collect the deliveries then back to Essex to deliver them every Saturday. She arrives to collect them at 9 am.

I text her asking for the next six weeks if she could be at pick up point at 8 am rather than 9 am.

She replied - 'See to be honest, it’s unsociable hours with it being so early at the weekend and having to get Amelia out of bed etc. I’d have to put my price up to £15 per hour. Let me know if you would be happy to go ahead with that or not. If you can’t though don’t worry I understand, It just means I’ll have to be getting up at 6.30 on a Saturday and my daughter too. Just wouldn’t be worth my while for tenner an hour xx'

AIBU to think this is totally unreasonable and out of the blue? How did she jump from £10 an hour to £15 because I asked her to come in one hour earlier. Am I being unreasonable?

Does she mean 15 for that one hour then the usual 10?

The op won’t be back. She doesn’t want to hear this

YABU

The op won’t be back. She doesn’t want to hear this

I think you may well be right there. Even £60 plus the (statutory, unrealistic) mileage allowance for only half of the mileage would still be an absolute bargain for all that the woman does, for anybody with any whiff of fairness, so they'd be glad that they were still getting off very lightly and not starting a thread hoping that everybody would agree that the 'naughty, lazy, greedy lady' was well out of order.

As PP said, I think she has indeed just killed her golden goose; but is still angry at it for dying.

She's probably already requested it be removed 😆

I think if you dictate her specific working hours, and she’s ‘self employed’ - then you could be in trouble as she could be classed as employed as working to certain times specified by you. The whole point of being self employed is that they choose when they work their hours and it’s different to a job.

I am not HR person, so I’m sure somebody much wiser than me can clarify.

Does anybody have a link for the earlier thread from the other woman's point of view?

Are you even allowed to class this worker as self-employed?

it seems like a perfectly reasonable fee negotiation if you are truly hiring an independent contractor.

Presumably she pays all her car costs and any London zone costs out of that?

How does she make any money at all?

No one is being out of order. You requested a change of time. She requested and increase in hourly fee. You then counter offer. If you can come to an agreement then on you go. If you cannot then you need to find another driver.

So, it's going to cost you £5 x6 weeks to inconvenience her. Sound a fair deal to me. £30 total.

This exactly. She's not forcing you to accept her offer. If you think you can easily find someone else to do it for £10/hr employ them.

So she works for nothing for part of the time and gets paid less than a cleaner. And you wonder why she’s had enough?

You asked if the earlier start suited. She replied - No.
So you can employ another driver for the early start or pay her extra to work earlier. Simples, take it or leave it. She is asking for time and a half for what she calls 'out of reasonable hours'.
You could ask if 13 was possible or just respond yes or no. If she is a good driver then I would stick with original hours or pay her extra so she can make other early arrangements for her daughter. Perhaps other people in your delivery chain also call 8:00 too early for delivery to their premises? You never know.

Can I work for you please?🤣

She probably won't be paying any tax or anything as a result of her 4 hours' work a week for OP. A jump of 50% in her pay would be a lot.

50% PH I mean of course.

You aren't unreasonable for asking. She isn't unreasonable for stating her price. YABU for thinking she is being unreasonable

@Ruthy45 send me your CV 😆

Women shouldn’t go around telling each her to be assertive and then criticising people who actually do have boundaries. This woman has a limit and that is presumably getting up at 6 at the weekend. I wouldn’t do it either.

Shes not put up the price to be greedy, she’s saying she doesn’t want to do it and is deliberately pricing herself out.

I have NO idea why you are taking this as an affront in any way.

Who is out of order here? You. You are.

This!

You pay her for a self employed service, she charges what she charges, if the change in hours is that disruptive, and I can see why it would be, then she can charge more. You can take it or leave it.

If you put your meals prices up because of a more costly ingredient someone might decide not to buy them it would be the same as you deciding not to use her due to increased cost. Or they might decide it was worth it as might you.

She's as entitled as you are to charge as she pleases for the service she provides

Minimum wage has never been much, that's the whole point of it. It's the legal bare minimum... And the OP is paying below it.

That's almost criminal, at least she's pushing back now.

Also your assertion that you can't pay her annual leave etc, what? Doesn't sound like your business is viable unless you skirt around the very edges of employment law. Yabu