Do you hate out adventure activities?

[user1496262496]

I run an outdoor centre which is primarily for young people. The sort of place schools book in to for a week and the young people do climbing, mountain walks, canoeing and bushcraft etc.

The culture of outdoor activities such as rock climbing, mountaineering and paddle sports has traditionally been male dominated. Participation has traditionally been male dominated. British Canoeing’s web site and Mountain Training’s website have loads of figures about this. There is research… but no one seems to ask the women who don’t engage, or who got put off for some reason at a young age.

I want the activities my centre runs to be as appealing as possible and for the young people to have the best time.

Where do outdoor centres etc go wrong?

I am interested to hear from women who don’t like outdoor adventure activities. What was it that put you off them? What is it that means they aren’t something you would do as an adult?

I don’t think I am unreasonable to think there is a problem in my industry.

If your DC didn’t like their school residential, why didn’t it work for them?

The fact it's in the UK? I love outdoors adventure type activities when on holiday but the UK is rarely warm enough for it to be fun. Desperate to learn sand up paddle boarding but even in a dry suit it's not fun in the UK

I suspect residential camps have changed an awful lot - for the better - since many of the experiences outlined here took place.

If equipment is provided, its not female friendly i.e I have a big bust and somethings dont fit! I'm also very short at 5 foot so if I borrow items of clothing like waterproof trousers, they don't fit. I might be small like a child but I certainly can't fit it to child sizes that might be smaller in length. Smaller groups might be easier. Nothing worse than having to try and climb something in front of like 10 people you don't know.

Lycia clothing is ideal / essential for many adventure activities, as are things made of wetsuit material. If you are flat chested, big chested, very skinny, not at all skinny, wearing a sanitary pad, have a pronounced pubic mound,large arse, bony arse, particularly attractive to teenage boys arse, no waist, hourglass figure , are wearing a safety harness and therefore have the biggest camel toe ever seen, lycra and wet suit material are absolute hell on earth. Add to this the need to stand with your class in front of a rack of wetsuits, life jackets etc and say out loud to the male instructor what size you might need and you have the reason why many women and girls don't do adventure activities. The categories above cover just about every woman who ever lived .

Our local outdoor pursuits are fantastic!

They do holiday clubs, home education sessions, emergency childcare, women's only groups, even yoga on a paddle board.

My DD goes to the holiday club and they do bushcraft where they'll pick apples and blackberries then start a campfire, boil down the blackberries into syrup and dunk the apple slices in for a snack, they use the charcoal to do cave drawings, make dreamcatchers from twigs, they do on a long boat ride once a week and have a picnic in a big park then row back.

They do a Santa paddle every year where people dress up as Santa and row down the river then back to the centre to make pizzas in a big outdoor pizza oven.

Www.lopc.co.uk

From a young age, many girls will subconsciously be influenced by gender norms.

Some ( definitely not all) parents and teachers have different expectations for boys and girls. They may encourage rough and tumble play for boys, but girls are expected to be polite and well behaved. Boys can get messy, but girls need to keep themselves neat and tidy.

Just look at the difference in traditional school uniforms for girls and boys- a girl isn’t as likely to go climbing trees after school in a skirt and strappy shoes.

Shops sell T shirts for boys that say ‘ Adventurer’ , but for girls it could be ‘Princess’

This was my experience as a child/teen too. Adults trying to force me into pond water strapped into a canoe at the waist with no idea how to free myself if it tips over. Cold and wet. Mocked and shamed! Period-related stress. It put me off outdoor activity centres. As an adult I'm actually reasonably adventurous, love hiking and paddle boarding. Still can't bring myself to try a canoe.

Sorry, you'd discourage your daughters from doing fun, healthy, outdoors activities because the outfits are ugly? Seriously?

With a dollop of homophobia in there for good measure

Hate stuff like this and would avoid at all costs. I camped while my kids were young - for them / DH, who love it - but even that is wearing thin now.

I hate being cold and wet and muddy. I don't derive any satisfaction from getting cold and wet and muddy. And I loathe the weird attitude of the people who DO enjoy it, like it's some sort of virtue and people who're happier inside with a book are morally inferior.

• SOME of the people who enjoy it, that should say.

I wonder if things have changed bec DD at school fell in with a brainy sporty ambitious girl gang. They also loved their fashion, as well as fiercely competing for grades & sport achievements. None of these things were mutually exclusive for them or their identities.

Men are often fat & clumsy too.
Men often need prescription glasses, too.
Men can feel humiliated by bad teachers and hate feeling mocked or stared at by peers, too.
My lads have been pretty ridiculous worrying about having right kit for some activities.
Men can struggle with being too big for any of the standard wetsuits available to borrow.

But what do I know... male clothing or equipment often fits me better than so-called female items.

How would I know if I were a tomboy?

There was a bit between 11 and about 14 where I really disliked this kind of thing. I was unhappy in my body, self conscious and struggled with heavy periods. I stopped doing all kinds of physical activity I had enjoyed before then. I did get back into some stuff after that, but for me I hate getting muddy or injured but love the water so that was mostly things like kayaking and surfing. I also got into the gym around then, and liked that I could shower afterwards, do my hair and makeup in the changing rooms, and had toilets nearby in case it was period week. I think making sure there are good facilities would be a good start, but that's probably part of the difference.
As an adult I've found things like climbing walls are catered to people a bit taller than me, wetsuits are uncomfortable around my bust area, it's that male as default thing that gets in the way as well

I am a long-distance hiker - spend up to a month at the time trekking in the wilderness with a tent. I love it. Love being outdoors and I'm not bothered about being cold and wet.
However, I know that I need to be completely in control of the situation - obviously you can't control weather etc, but I can control how I react to it. I hike alone because I am in control of how far I go, when I take a break, where I pitch the tent, when to cut a hike short and so on.
I didn't go to outdoor centres as a kid but I was in the Air Training Corps - and the two issues for me were that
a) I had no control and because I have always been quite slow at hiking and had asthma at the time, I felt pushed beyond my limits and really didn't like that. We were called pathetic and mocked by men and boys if we couldn't keep up.
b) Men and boys attitudes to the girls participating (see also point a) - not just about not being able to keep up, but also about appearance and whether you were hot or not. And seemingly no understanding whatsoever that there are physical differences between girls and boys which does influence performance.

I think a good outdoor centre should offer activities for girls and boys separately, as well as mixed activities. Female instructors are also important as role-models and also because they have an understanding of what it is like to be a girl, going through puberty for example.
And I think all children should be able to say enough is enough and that there are plans in place for kids who really can't keep up or who are genuinely really terrified of heights etc.

It's cold, wet, uncomfortable and boring.
Like a PP, I don't get a sense of achievement or a "high" from doing things like this.
Hate getting wet and dirty. Hate looking and feeling like shit while doing an activity (I mean things like my hair frizzing or going in my face, I don't mind if I look silly dangling off a zipwire etc). I loathe having to change into special clothing.
Toilets and periods. In fact, periods have dictated masses of what I've chosen to do and when.
I love being outdoors, and I'm reasonably fit, but you're never going to get me doing sporty adventure activities.

Someone earlier mentioned geocaching/orienteering, which I've never tried but I could see myself going for something like that.

No, that is not the reason I would discourage, but feel free to think it if it suits your narrative.

OP, I have always enjoyed loads of outdoor stuff, my relaxation these days is fell walking, ‘back to basics’ camping (e.g cooking over the fire) , and sea swimming (May to Oct. I’m not that hardcore!).

And I am part of a big friendship group who enjoy the same things and whose kids, teens and young adults of both sexes now enjoy the same things. (They also like ballet / reading / music lessons / doing their nails etc). (And would consider comments like those by @MelanieFlowers as idiotic)

Our Scout group which had loads of girls and did bushcraft camps, expeditions that were more challenging than the spoon fed trip that is Bronze DoE these days, loads of outdoor adventurous stuff.

The scout leader was female.

So I would say:

Your industry is swimming upstream against loads of socialisation . Of course some kids of both sexes will hate outdoor sports, but only girls are socialised against it.

Mothers who grew up being humiliated and otherwise put off will put their DD’s off.

Few encouraging / inclusive images of girls and women having a great time doing these things. Is there stuff on TikTok and Insta showing female leaders encouraging girls having a great time?

Another one saying weight, there is never any information about weight limits on these things and I wouldn't want to put myself in a position to be embarrassed

Toilet facilities, usually a bit gross and never enough. If you suffer from bad periods you need to be confident that you won't be caught out

Things are very male focussed and women have different bodies, so equipment is often uncomfortable as it's been designed for the male body

People can often be very competitive and make you feel a bit shit if you are scared, can't do something, or do something wrong

I can't bear anything like this, far too much effort, cold, miserable weather, competitiveness with people vying to be the best. Would rather sit on the sofa with chocolate and a glass of wine.

Same here

However my dds younger one in particular seem to like outdoor pursuits and paddle boarding.

Re wearing glasses, I'm a paddle boarder and a specs wearer. I bought an extra pair of specs, just the cheapest I could find basically, and a £10 floating strap to attach them to.
Every session I have I deliberately fall off, because it's actually more fun if you can take the mickey out of yourself, and I like to keep checking my self-rescue abilities, I have to say I've never (yet) lost my specs.

Re wearing wetsuits, the first time I put one on I was overweight and menopausal, a short dumpy 49 year old with a big bust. Once I got into the hobby and wanted my own gear I bought separates, they were easier to get into and a better fit than an all-in-one. I also then had an incentive to actually lose weight so that I could fit into a standard suit

I don't try and keep up with any men, they're usually stronger and faster. I did pick it up much quicker than my DH though, my balance was far better than his, maybe being shorter actually helps as lower centre of gravity. It's really nice to have a shared hobby, good fun, good exercise in the fresh air, we take the dog with us. It's also really sociable, loads of Facebook groups so you can find people to tag along with, it's a very friendly community.

I like being outdoors and live just on the edge of the Lake District, so outdoor activities are huge here. I like walking, don't mind a leisurely canoe and like swimming in the lakes in the summer, but I am not at all keen on anything more adventurous than that. I don't like heights and am not keen on getting muddy or bruised. Caving is my idea of hell! I also hate the idea of being in a group situation where I might feel pressured to do an adventurous activity I wasn't comfortable with.

Gosh the yelling your weight across the room thing is so easily solved it’s laughable. - if the equipment is already colour coded then they could just yell your harness colour instead.
so if 40-60kg = green yell ´green’. If 80-110 = orange, yell ´orange!’.

I share your frustrations and concerns @user1496262496 . I used to be involved in youth cycle coaching. The drop off of girls after going to secondary school was massive. Their return rate was very low.

I love outdoor pursuits, from the first time I was plucked from my inner London comp
In the mid 80s and dragged up some Welsh mountains for a week. I've continued to climb mountains, walk hills, ski, cycle, kayak a bit etc etc etc all my life. Rock climbing fell by the wayside when my partner moved to Oz. Then I had dc... and my adventures were reduced, but continued.

DD (11) hates all this stuff though! I'm not sure it's about being cold and wet because she plays grassroots football on some horrific waterlogged pitches! At least with cricket rain stops play!

I do think it's puberty- female bodies don't lend themselves easily to prolonged outdoor activity, away from flush toilets and other home comforts, wee-ing behind a bush etc. I imagine it's very easy to stop once you have to start dealing with periods and sports bras and PMT, and not necessarily easy or obvious to get back into - especially when your males peers are at their fittest and strongest. I only got into outdoor activities at about 15, but I remember very clearly sitting on a belay 200 feet above the Llanberris Pass trying to work out how to change my sanitary towel (well before Mooncups and period pants).

Something I have noticed with my DD is that she has really begun to feel the cold as she enters puberty. She used to be that child who wore shorts all year, even when school has the windows open all summer. Now she wear thermals under her school trousers and shirt. Maybe the cold had got something to do with it after all.