Do you hate out adventure activities?

[user1496262496]

I run an outdoor centre which is primarily for young people. The sort of place schools book in to for a week and the young people do climbing, mountain walks, canoeing and bushcraft etc.

The culture of outdoor activities such as rock climbing, mountaineering and paddle sports has traditionally been male dominated. Participation has traditionally been male dominated. British Canoeing’s web site and Mountain Training’s website have loads of figures about this. There is research… but no one seems to ask the women who don’t engage, or who got put off for some reason at a young age.

I want the activities my centre runs to be as appealing as possible and for the young people to have the best time.

Where do outdoor centres etc go wrong?

I am interested to hear from women who don’t like outdoor adventure activities. What was it that put you off them? What is it that means they aren’t something you would do as an adult?

I don’t think I am unreasonable to think there is a problem in my industry.

If your DC didn’t like their school residential, why didn’t it work for them?

I went on a trip like it as a teen and the instructors were all horribly macho and did nothing to encourage the less confident ones of us. We were made to feel like wusses and princesses because were nervous. Shockingly a load of girls from a deprived South London school weren’t used to outdoor pursuits. We might’ve been more adventurous if we weren’t mocked.

It just put me off because I don’t want to be fighting twats when I’m supposed to be having fun.

Also: too cold and wet.

I have to say from my DD's perspective the single most off-putting thing about these sorts of events is the presence of boys. She finds boys annoying and intimidating in the best of circumstances and in these sorts of activities their boisterousness and competitiveness is very off-putting to a girl who is anxious or self-conscious. She has done two of these adventure camps, one at her mixed sex primary school and one at her single sex secondary and she vastly preferred the latter one. This is why I chose for her to be educated only with other girls to be honest: I find boys at this age an almost universally negative influence on girls in an educational setting.

I think also the enforced "you will have fun" thing can be very hard for a child who is anxious or scared. Some of the camp leaders can be quite gung ho about the activities and dismiss the fears and concerns of the children who are not sure they are going to enjoy stuff.

Hmm, I wouldn't necessarily gravitate to this kind of thing, but enjoy kayaking down a calm river in Europe in the summer - nice and warm.

Otherwise:
Cost - for a family of 4 these things always seem very expensive.

Convenience - an activity like this takes up so much time - commuting to get there, gearing up, then unpacking everything and commuting home. I don't really have the inclination (or time, frankly) to regularly give up a day at the weekend. DH and I do exercise regularly, but it tends to be a run/bike ride/weights class etc. don't need to plan the whole weekend around it.

Weather - UK weather just isn't pleasant enough.

Other options - as above, I'd rather do something else. We live rurally, and I walk frequently with friends, plus we've got a big garden, and DH especially spends hours working in it.

So maybe not gender specific reasons particularly?

I did school residentials in places like this (going back a while now as I'm mid 30s!). I hated it. I'm not an outdoorsy / adventurous person. The activities were all run by young men (I'd say early 20s) who basically mocked anyone who said they felt scared / didn't like it and everyone else would laugh. I'd hope that doesn't happen these days but you never know! I was also a bit chubby as a tween /teen and very self-conscious. Lots of the activities required swimsuits, wetsuits, all in one overall things that were unisex and one-size-fits-all (but fit some better than others). I also hated the change facilities and the smell. Nothing on earth could persuade me back to one of those places. Like a pp has said, I'd rather just never go anywhere again than have to go there.

I enjoy the activities like climbing and abseiling but I too easily get very cold and then I am miserable. And crap toilets. Went to a place recently with a group of 70 kids and there was 1 portaloo. Obviously all the instructors are men and they don’t care.

Women aren’t as strong as men so you can also feel pretty useless when trying an activity for the first time.

I love outdoor activities. (Not water ones though to be fair).
Things that put me off are mainly:
Cold and wet (which you can’t control) but the right kits improves it all dramatically.

however: there are never adequate effective drying rooms
I also hate having to use borrowed kit from the centres because it’s mainly damp/ dirty and stinks. This is especially true of helmets and footwear.
it is one of the things that put me off PE at school too.

Having said that we have horses, which involves wearing and using a lot of damp smelly kit. But I’d equally dislike having to use some else’s riding boots or hat etc

I really do think that having the right warm comfortable kit for any outdoor thing makes a world of difference. And I guess you can’t expect parents to kit their kids out for every activity and not can the centres be expected to provide it to that level. I have been shocked at times at the clothing parents send their children in though despite being sent a list. A ‘warm waterproof coat’ that a child might wear in a city just in the school commute really doesn’t cut it on a 5k hike on the North Yorkshire moors in the rain. And I’ve seen countless kids crying with cold.

I don't feel confident, hate being cold and wet and can't see without glasses.

I don't like being watched by others and feel self conscious

I don’t like cold, wet, muddy activities. Or anywhere I don’t have access to clean, private bathrooms with hot water and soap.

Cold,wet , I'm not very good at sports. Hate 'team' things.
Hate the fact it's supposed to be 'fun'

This. As a curvy busty female with heavy periods, this all has to be factored in. Plus time- dh can just crack on whereas I have to consider which child has to be where and what I'm doing about dinner afterwards.

And cost! Women's gear costs more. Then the cost of the activity...

I hike and geocache because its cheap

Yep

Hate team sports too

the types of girls/women that do these activities tend to be tomboy/masculine.

I would never take part myself and would discourage my daughters from doing so too.

That's a pretty crap attitude. Firstly, "tomboy/masculine" is a ridiculous characterisation and nonsense. Secondly, your daughters are not you, they may like different things from you; that's fine.

I agree with @Thepeopleversuswork . Girl/women only groups and extra-supportive instructors are needed (preferably at least one female), together with suitable arrangements for changing/toilets. If you're asking people, especially pre-teen and teenage girls, to do stuff which is outside their comfort zone, they need to be in a safe environment where they feel supported and their privacy is protected.

I think all of these outdoor activities are expensive so that puts me off, however I used to love things like that and can’t wait til DS is older so I can’t start taking him!

I love this kind of thing but I think the reason more guys get into it is that it's far easier for them to take off for a weekend - see the amount of people here who are left by husbands for cycling weekends.

Women have to juggle more in terms of childcare to get one single day away and then when they get there they're always the amateur abd always going to be because they'll never have as much time to do it.

I think she is spot on

My dds were ok with it and liked doing that Mudda challenge thing

I did used to guide camp through

I do hate dirty toilets and no privacy changing

If something was single-sex, and the instructors were female, I would be much more like to have a go.
When I've taken part in things in the past I've usually found that the males dominate and take over, or that the male instructors have no idea of the physical differences between the sexes.

I booked a paddle boarding lesson at a specific place because it was led by a female. When I had a further lesson in a different venue it was because I wanted to learn techniques for self-rescue. The male instructor seemed oblivious to the fact that as a woman I had a bust, and less upper-body strength, and couldn't just merrily swing myself onto the board.
The instructor had six of us in the group, the other five being male. My DH was spectating and at the end of the lesson commented on how little time the instructor had spent with me, literally minutes, compared to the men in the group. I've tried explaining it to him before but he never got it until then, how much men can dominate or change the dynamics of a group.

Having said that, now that I have really got into SUP it's definitely given me the confidence to try other outdoor activities. I used to think that they weren't for people like me, overweight and unfit, but now I'm keen to try other things. I do prefer the emphasis to be on fun and personal achievement not competition with others.

I’d agree. It’s fine not to like it yourself but perhaps your daughter might enjoy it?

Plus I LOVE this sort of thing and am quite a typically feminine woman. Love clothes, make up and have long blonde hair - so not v tomboy or masculine. Nor are my friends who like this sort of thing.

I

I love this stuff. One daughter also loves it, the other hates it.

I think for teenagers it can be awkward getting changed, knowing what to do about needing the loo and what to do about periods. My two have gone through phases of those things bothering them.

More generally, I agree that most kit is designed for men although I think it's improving. I wish manufacturers would stop assuming all women who like the outdoors are size 8 flat chested tall women. It's bloody hard to get stuff that fits as a short, busty size 14.

I mean, obviously this is a ridiculous stance to take, but I was just coming on to say that often by the time girls reach about 6 or 7, society has done a number on them by telling them that this sort of thing isn't for them, so it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

The periods/privacy/ presence of boys etc is also a very big part of it, once experienced.

I'd rather poke myself in the eyes with red hot pokers than go camping, personally.

I wear glasses and can't wear contacts or have laser eye surgery for various reasons - so all these activities are impossible for me. If I take my glasses off I can't see a thing so that's not an option either.

I still remember being mocked by the instructors at activity camp when I climbed to the top of a tree and then had to abseil down.

Went up confidently, then looked down (my first ever abseil) and froze with fear.

There was a very strong sense of militarism in all the outdoor camps we did as kids (and I did a fair number) - "you will suffer, you will be humiliated because you are not brave and strong enough so we will break you. "

A very crap version of the SAS challenge programme on channel 4 essentially. Usually run by sad men who thrived on making kids fear them.

So in my mind, outdoor adventures are entwined with humiliation and militarism!

That said as an adult I do outdoor swimming and have camped and even abseiled....but in female led groups only.
I've also done geo aching and navigation training trips and enjoyed them.

If the outdoor activities at kids camps had been more about the outdoor world - animal tracking, natural navigation, wildlife habitat building, I think a much wider range of kids could have engaged with the hiking and camping part of it as being a means to get to the activity.

You would 'discourage' your daughters! Do you mean that? Like, you'd actually try to put them off taking part in outdoor pursuits? If so, that's such a shame.

I love all outdoor adventure type activities.

I ended up doing a lot of water sports (windsurfing/sailing) and they have always felt reasonably balanced - we had a whole girls sailing team at university.

I think off putting things that deterred me from other sports i have enjoyed (kayaking,.climbing, potholing, abseiling)!include buoyancy aids etc not made for the big breasted. Horrible shower facilities etc
A bit of a "macho" culture so you could feel on the outside. The need to be good at the practical elements of setting up the kit/moving it around (I lack the strength), the sense that being "strong" was so important (whereas sailing /windsurfing you could counter this with technique),

And I guess the lack of opportunities too.

I've liked seeing the female paddle boarding community build up and can't wait to get back to that when I am better