Do you hate out adventure activities?

[user1496262496]

I run an outdoor centre which is primarily for young people. The sort of place schools book in to for a week and the young people do climbing, mountain walks, canoeing and bushcraft etc.

The culture of outdoor activities such as rock climbing, mountaineering and paddle sports has traditionally been male dominated. Participation has traditionally been male dominated. British Canoeing’s web site and Mountain Training’s website have loads of figures about this. There is research… but no one seems to ask the women who don’t engage, or who got put off for some reason at a young age.

I want the activities my centre runs to be as appealing as possible and for the young people to have the best time.

Where do outdoor centres etc go wrong?

I am interested to hear from women who don’t like outdoor adventure activities. What was it that put you off them? What is it that means they aren’t something you would do as an adult?

I don’t think I am unreasonable to think there is a problem in my industry.

If your DC didn’t like their school residential, why didn’t it work for them?

Wow... like the last 50 years never happened....

I’m writing this as a teacher who goes on residentials and enjoys them…

• instructors who’s attitude is geared towards the capable, sporty participants. Excellent hard skills (Ho-yah Willy measuring is what my old headteacher used to say.) but no soft skills. And no ideas how to motivate anyone but the keen.
• lack of decent/private bathrooms and dorms (and external changing facilities at destination activities) for everyone, not just females. Especially when you consider the average y5/y6 girl is heading into puberty.
• crap drying facilities - who wants to have half dry kit to put back on, start the activity miserable!
• similarly poorly maintained Centre Loan kit - no issue with the ppe ever but knackered, hokey wetsuits and waterproofs aren’t good.
• activities which are geared to the sporty, capable children - the best residential I’ve been on in the last few years had an orienteering activity - not an evening or a filler, a whole afternoon or morning Session and children who’d struggled with climbing etc had an opportunity to achieve independently and some really shine.

I’m a well qualified former instructor. I left because I felt I had hit a glass ceiling as a female. I still freelance and don’t feel the industry has moved as far forward as it should have. I was working 2 weekends ago and was utterly patronised by a fairly new entrant who made a lot of assumptions.

I mean I assume you are just trolling. But I was 5 ft and very slim with long blonde hair and v pretty when I was doing these sports. And I quite often would hop out of the gear and into a mini dress/ballgown to go partying the same evening!

Love it especially your ref to lack of soft skills

Cooking, dance and craft are much more my thing and I wouldn't have minded the orienteering or a quiz.

I don't like the team aspect of these sort of thing if you don't feel you are up to scratch

I'm outdoor sports based always have been, I've done it from a young age with outward bound courses and plas y Brenin courses.
But even my love of outdoor sports csn be dampened by competitive blokes! It becomes a pissing competition with the majority.

Things I have really enjoyed is things like women's paddle symposiums, women's climb days, rip curl girl surf days etc. Female instructor female group. The dynamic is completely changed and I learn how I can do it as a female as a lot of the time women have a more technical way rather then brute strength!

I think more options of girl focused groups would make a difference!

Nope not trolling. This is a very common view, people are just too afraid to admit it.

The women into these types of things always claim they’re feminine and not at all tomboy. It’s rarely true.

I'm qualified in a number of outdoor disciplines but have never worked in the industry, only volunteered.

The barriers that I see are

1. Centre kit is ALWAYS designed for boys / men. There are rarely if ever girls wetsuits / BAs / spare boots / waterproofs and as a consequence women and girls end up with kits that's too big and bulk and doesn't keep them warm properly.

1. From experience women and girls have lower tolerance for the cold, when I run girls only activity sessions I keep them shorter and have more hot drinks breaks, this also accommodates more toilet breaks.

1. Instructors are predominately male, this is uncomfortable and leads to situations where boys get more hands on teaching as male instructors are reluctant to get as close to girls, or the girls don't want to be as close to the instructors.

1. Instructors are predominantly male so there's a lack or role models.

1. Culture and 'banter' there's still quite a macho and drinking culture around a lot of outdoor stuff. Women don't joke with each other in the same way and it can be quite off putting. It's more a barrier to retention than entry, but still.

1. A pp mentioned it already but the age that kids start getting into these things is also around the age they start getting periods. Having a period and doing activities where you might be away from a loo, get wet etc is quite daunting. Simple discussions around period pants and leaving out supplies incase people get caught out would help massively but no-one talks about it.

The eyesight thing is a stumbling block though because even if you wear contacts you are not supposed to get water in your eye.

You can't kayak in glasses?

Do people wear prescription goggles

If you are really into watersports etc you can get prescription glasses for this. They are £££ though. My current pair were £400 and it took some perseverance to get them through an independent options as the high st chains don't cater for my prescription.

Too expensive . Would do much more if was more affordable

@Fairy

Do they stay on ok?

I was thinking of the Kayak drill

I think competitiveness is definitely the problem for me. I am completely scarred by school PE lessons and their overemphasis on team ball games which I'm completely and irrevocably put off by. (Imagine instead of a quick game of catch to break the ice I suggest a friendly oral spelling test. Against the clock and you're dyslexic. It's completely acceptable for other team members to yell "there's an e on the end you IDIOT" if you fuck up the spelling for your team. Now see if you fancy doing anything at all that might involve a spelling test at any point. Or be done by the kind of people who like spelling tests. That's the level of trauma I feel about any physical thing and it's shite because I'd have loved climbing etc before I got old and fat.)

I hate to think sessions have to be single sex to include women but they could be skewed to the feminine and reduce the element of physical competitiveness. I would love an outdoor weekend that had a non endurance purpose - go out on a kayak to do wildlife photography, hike to an out of the way spot and create a picnic, night hiking with an astronomy session in a dark park, rock climbing with geology or doing a nature survey. So there is a point to the activities that isn't go the furthest/fastest/highest/endure the most extreme conditions. The warmup activities should be yoga and health orientated not teambuilding competitions which always favour hearty pe types. If the centre could be a comfortable clubhouse rather than an austere correctional outbuilding that would be great too.

I absolutely love this kind of stuff. However pregnant at the moment so it’s kind of out. I do know a few women who enjoyed this kind of thing when they were younger but don’t enjoy it now or would like to but don’t as the feel self-conscious or unfit or overweight. I’m not sure how you would overcome this as a business.

I’m in my late 40’s, fit and sporty. Can run 5k in the gym. I did a day at a well know activity centre provider last year with my son. Had no idea what to expect. It was a bit spit n sawdust, and quite frankly lots of it was physically uncomfortable. Leather straps and ropes that dig in. Cold. Bit damp. Hair over the place and face felt greasy. Activities that require you to have a flexible body, and at nearly 50 I’m a bit stiff jointed. It’s pretty knackering so you do have to be relatively fittish. Very weather dependent. Often food is canteen based with only one or two options. And you’re on a time budget with the instructors shouting “30 minutes for lunch then meet back at X”, so once you’ve queued and got some food it’s all a rush and faffy shovelling it down. No time for a nice coffee.

A day was ok. They were trying to sell short family breaks in half term. No chance. My BMI is around 20, if I’d gone along a few years ago at my previous bmi of 40 it would have been hell on earth. With the best intentions there really aren’t many women in their late 40’s who would enjoy hurtling down a zip wire designed primarily for children.

I mean I am looking back on myself 20 years ago so am quite confident in what the photos show. A girl equally at home in a ballgown or a drysuit.

Anyway, of all the reasons to miss out on anything this seems the most unfortunate. But fair enough if that is honestly your priority in life I guess, to fit a perceived version of feminine at all time

Yes. They grip to the sides of your head, I've sailed and kayaked in them and capsized a few times. They also have polycarbonate lenses to protect your eyes and a polarised filter for glare and they float, although I wear a floating strap on them too.

Absolute game changer for me, although painfully expensive!

Yes depolrabelle

I like things you do at your own pace and are not under pressure because of the team. I do like a quiz though or music related stuff

I could happily do the spelling task btw

Crossed posts with you but YES! Only pe and sometimes maths is taught by public humiliation and it's an awful way to go on. Actually music is sometimes taught this way too and it's why many adults say they can't sing when many actually can

I said rarely true. Not never. There are always exceptions.

And as I’ve already stated, there are multiple reasons I don’t like outdoor activities. The main ones being that it’s usually cold, wet, hard work and dull.

I loved outdoor activities as a teen, but was put off by the toxic culture I often encountered e.g. making everything a competition, "roughing it" as the only valid choice and ridiculing people who might choose less extreme options. I also found there was quite an unpleasant culture in many men who favoured those experiences, where they would only be willing to except women if they were super fit, slim and willing to be sexually objectified.

I like being outdoors, but for me I'm put off because about 6 or 7 years ago I had a nasty asthma attack on a hike with my mum. It was the worst one I've ever had.
I'm not medicated for them, because they are very, very rare for me. I've only had 4 attacks in my entire life.
But the fear of having another puts me off the idea of very strenuous activity.

I went on to these often as a teen. I actually really enjoy kayaking and doing it as an adult in a hot country where I just had to put on a buoyancy aid over my swimsuit was a revelation.

I echo what others say - clean well equipped changing and toilet facilities would make such a difference. Decent degree of privacy to squeeze into the wetsuits. I used to go kayaking at a place with one open shower and open changing rooms. Even though it was sex segregated us girls were always mortified and would just take turns in the communal shower so getting changed after took forever. I recognise that we need to get away from feeling judged/judgemental about ourselves and others bodies but I really do think this plays into it.

I think this also extends to the other stuff - weight based climbing equipment for example. I recently did a Go Ape type thing. You got weighed going in then someone yelled your weight across the room to the bit they were distributing harnesses from. Then they were colour co-ordinated. It was so cringe and I wouldn't go back just for that reason.

Cold, wet, lack of privacy for changing/showers, ghastly brisk hearty women who remind me of dreaded school PE teachers. The only outdoor activities I enjoy are walking in nice scenery, and swimming in the sea(even in the UK) or a suitable lake.

Adore these type of activities always have in spite of the fact that I am terrified of heights.

I'm scared of heights and hate my head being in tight places plus I'm not confident in water.

On the other hand my daughter's sister-in-law is an outdoor pursuits instructor and has recently emigrated to Canada to work in the Rockies