To be concerned booster jabs stopped but not flu jabs

[CristinaNov182]

Anyone can have repeated flu jabs, new year / new flu jab. Older people for free, younger pay.

We’re just out of a pandemic but the safe and effective booster jabs won’t be offered to anyone anymore apart the very vulnerable. There is no addendum below that people could just purchase them, nor any such info on internet. As a contrast, the flu jab page mentions you can have this done “privately or through an occupational health scheme”.

Changes to coronavirus (COVID-19) vaccine booster doses
After 12 February 2023 you will not be able to get a COVID-19 vaccine booster dose.

Some people who are at increased risk, for example because of age or certain medical conditions, may be offered a seasonal booster later this year. If you are eligible for this, the NHS will contact you when it’s your turn to get vaccinated.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/find-a-walk-in-coronavirus-covid-19-vaccination-site/

I wonder why?

“You are NOT being unreasonable “ = it is becoming harder to cover up and explain away the surplus deaths hence let’s stop the boosters

“You are being unreasonable “ = no one cares about their grandma anymore / No one wants to protect grandma anymore / grandma is 💀 so no need to protect her anymore. No immune compromised people exist or no one cares about them. No one is worried about covid. People worry more about the flu etc.

How do you square this decision?

HoppingPavlova, are you suggesting then the boosters will be given to us unnecessarily just to use up stock. That we shouldn’t get them?

HoppingPavlova, I am confused. How can ATAGI be independent when they govt pays for it?

The health departments - state and federal - are not, and as far as I know have never been, independent of the govt who pays them.

@HoppingPavlova @Morestrangethings

The remit of ATAGI has always been to be an independent advisory group to the government. That’s why I mentioned it. You may not have, but that is the remit. As I said the reality has become something else. No, I don’t have anything I can give you in writing because funnily these things are not written and/or published. Also funnily a lot of stuff can’t even be released under FOI these days under the banner ‘not in interest of public health’ and you won’t get it for decades, by which we will be long dead and no one will care. No, I’m not some conspiracy theorist, just someone who previously had a bit of professional interaction with ATAGI and some other groups and still hold some relevant social connections.

I think there's perhaps some misunderstanding of the term 'independent'. ATAGI is part of the Department of Health, and reports directly to the Minister for Health. However, the not all members of ATAGI are necessarily employed by the Department of Health: some are GPs, pharmacists and other relevant experts, for example.

Other than that, I'm not sure what you're attempting to imply - and you do sound like a conspiracy theorist.

You may be using a different dataset than I am. I am using the raw data from ONS. One of the sets gives you cause of death.

🤷‍♀️Just official info I’ve received.

researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-9332/CBP-9332.pdf

The winter booster programme and third jab has finished but there will be others. Yesterday our local pop up clinic was still running,

Do you have a link/stats for your last sentence?

This made me chuckle 🤭
Im busily reading the discussion, then bam! this

@MeetPi I think there's perhaps some misunderstanding of the term 'independent'. ATAGI is part of the Department of Health, and reports directly to the Minister for Health. However, the not all members of ATAGI are necessarily employed by the Department of Health: some are GPs, pharmacists and other relevant experts, for example

There is no misunderstanding of the term ‘independent’. I know exactly how all of these groups work

The government pays independent committees and experts for their expertise and time spent on the issue. That is different to being directed by the government. And, no, they are not ‘employed’ by the government, obviously (as would not be independent!). So, along with ATAGI, ACM and ACV are independent committees for example. In all cases the remit is to provide independent, impartial advice to the government, but obviously people need to be paid for expertise/time. Being the theory, which has worked quite well until recently with ATAGI being strong armed at a certain point.

@Morestrangethings HoppingPavlova, I am confused. How can ATAGI be independent when they govt pays for it? The health departments - state and federal - are not, and as far as I know have never been, independent of the govt who pays them.

Im confused how you are confused re ATAGI and any other independent committees the government pays for? The remit is for a committee who is meant to advise solely on scientific data/merit. The reason they are paid is because they spend time assessing and advising in this regard. The government cannot direct experts to do this for free! They are not employed by the government, it’s a pay for time/expertise supposedly without being directed as to what the expert advice is. Always worked well until a certain point during Covid then it didn’t. A proportion of any of these committees are not solely invested for scientific purposes but do have political affiliations/aspirations and while never an issue previously, this changed with Covid.

There are more excess deaths now then when people were dying of covid and cancer treatments and all operations were stopped.
What's your source for this? Mine below suggests excess deaths are well below the pre-vaccination stages of Covid, even in the bad weeks just past Christmas.

And the 7 million people on waiting lists, along with those who didn't get their cancer/long term conditions diagnosed during the pandemic, plus the resurgence of fresh flu viruses this winter, are all contributing to excess mortality.

So @HoppingPavlova you seem to be saying ATAGI is now not reliable and their advice is now compromised. But you offer no proof. I’ve seen this sort of thing before and it’s tiresome - and to my mind only done to sew uncertainty and doubt.

Yeah, I’m going to go with the advice of my doctor and will be having the next booster as ATAGI have recommended. I don’t take medical advice, or listen to unsubstantiated theories on reliability of ATAGI, from some anonymous poster on MN.

You are sounding like a conspiracy theorist to me too.

i won’t be responding to any further posts of yours.

Caniretractthat
@DeNeushoornHeeftEenHoorn basic epidemiology shows the more transmissible a virus the less harmful it is.

This is an over-simplification/ simple misunderstanding of the nature of both viruses in general and the natural of SARS . It is the case that viruses tend to mutate to be less virulent, over time. Do you know the kind of timescales we are talking about with that "evolution"? How many people debilitated with Long Covid do you think would be acceptable collateral to "let it rip"?

how do you suggest governments approach public health?

I have (a) admitted I don't have the answers and (b) made one suggestion (that many leading scientists are also making) - of ventilation and air cleaning in public buildings and on public transport. The UK government is ignoring this recommendation.

Ooops - that should say "and the nature of SARS in particular".