To be concerned booster jabs stopped but not flu jabs

[CristinaNov182]

Anyone can have repeated flu jabs, new year / new flu jab. Older people for free, younger pay.

We’re just out of a pandemic but the safe and effective booster jabs won’t be offered to anyone anymore apart the very vulnerable. There is no addendum below that people could just purchase them, nor any such info on internet. As a contrast, the flu jab page mentions you can have this done “privately or through an occupational health scheme”.

Changes to coronavirus (COVID-19) vaccine booster doses
After 12 February 2023 you will not be able to get a COVID-19 vaccine booster dose.

Some people who are at increased risk, for example because of age or certain medical conditions, may be offered a seasonal booster later this year. If you are eligible for this, the NHS will contact you when it’s your turn to get vaccinated.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/find-a-walk-in-coronavirus-covid-19-vaccination-site/

I wonder why?

“You are NOT being unreasonable “ = it is becoming harder to cover up and explain away the surplus deaths hence let’s stop the boosters

“You are being unreasonable “ = no one cares about their grandma anymore / No one wants to protect grandma anymore / grandma is 💀 so no need to protect her anymore. No immune compromised people exist or no one cares about them. No one is worried about covid. People worry more about the flu etc.

How do you square this decision?

They’re both RNA viruses, meaning they mutate much more.
Hence still deaths for flu
Except one has been studied for ages.
I couldn’t say how much pharmaceutical research is still being done for Covid, it’s the unpredictability that makes it harder, by the time (it takes a long time) they come up with a new one, it may be completely irrelevant.
With flu at least they have a year and can attempt modeling

Yes, but Covid seems to mutate quicker

And that’s the thing for flu, they can include much more known variants

I don't say anyone engineers flu. I say that the active strains are known, afaik they are using seasonality and observe how mutations go in southern hemisphere during their winter, so they are able to create vaccines which has good probability to work for the winter season.

With covid - actually, the mRNA vaccines producers did managed to create the BA4/5 variants in time, so it was used in the autumn, but the virus is less predictable and general demand for vaccination decreases.
Anyway, UK decision to stop offering the vaccination is probably political/economical. Maybe the booster isn't seen as that effective. The excess death link is very week and pretty rubish.

Corona viruses have also been around as long as flu, you are all idiots.

@Godlovesall26 just because the covid variants had gotten a lot of publicity it doesn’t mean it mutates quicker. Certainly I haven’t seen any study to say that.

and it doesn’t matter if it does. There will be people who will still choose it, even knowing it is an older variant. There is money to be made, why would anyone leave it on the table?

This is the first time I’m hearing about people believing the flu jab is based on predictions. As far as I know and talked with, people are aware the flu jab is based on last year viruses and people still pay for it. It’s a least a good exercise for the immune system, plus even if new variants come in play, it doesn’t mean the old ones aren’t circulating. For someone with some vulnerability, or no vulnerability but would lie, to dodge a bullet, like me, I’d rather pay some money and get the flu jab, just in case.

why not for covid boosters?

I don’t think anyone’s saying the opposite. This particular strain hasn’t
Im not saying anything is right in the way things are handled, but have we ever been able to handle pandemics well ? Optimistic to expect a change
And flu has good predicting variants, and it’s not the only one in it’s category either.

@CristinaNov182

Yes.

Health care globally is fucked.

Combination of lots of factors, big one being the global pandemic

I’m aware of that. I also know and it’s easy to research that, though they have tried to make vaccines for corona too, they all have failed so far, for very good reasons. (None of them to do with the rate of mutation. )

Except for the ones released recently under emergency provison.

They do try to model for flu. And there’s a higher probability of it being similar strains the next year, and there’s more time. And you can add last year’s variants to the jab.

It does mutate quicker though, you’ll find studies on it. Or if that isn’t the right expression, quicker than whoever’s in charge seems to be able to keep up with.

For flu try googling models but only on pubmed etc

@CristinaNov182

Since you brought up Australia, here's an excerpt from an actuaries' report on Australian Bureau of Statistics excess deaths numbers in 2022.

www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/why-are-more-people-dying-in-australia-many-questi

"The most likely cause for non-COVID-19 excess deaths, the Actuaries Institute suggests, is ‘post-COVID-19 sequelae or interactions with other causes of death’ that may be having a ‘high’ impact in Australia.

‘Studies have shown that COVID-19 is associated with higher subsequent mortality risk from heart disease and other causes,’ its analysis states."

I just looked it up on regards to Australia. But if you read further down that article global numbers are given too. There’s little difference in Australia than anywhere else.
———

From AAP 1st November, 2022. (aap. com.au)

“No, the flu is not more deadly than COV

———
**
**
Meg Williams
November 1, 2022”

**
“WHAT WAS CLAIMED
**
COVID-19 always had a greater survival rate than influenza.
**
OUR VERDICT
**
False. COVID has a higher mortality rate than influenza, data shows.”

————-

(Apologies, but I can’t work out how to link this, so I’ve provided website, heading and date, which makes it easier to find.)

Yes, they’re just luckily less frequent in the general population, until this variant showed up

Once more, have you searched for long term effects of covid?
Heart issues would fit well.

if lack of treatment in 2020 was the cause you’d see similar numbers of excess deaths across all causes, more or less.
Not necessarily. Different causes has different dynamics in time.

And again, the increase illness rates around the world doesn't match vaccination rates (if it did, it would be well visible on children population of different countries, as children vaccination differed more than adult one)

@ZiriForEver it would be easier to believe that if not for the boosters being pulled without being offered at least as a private choice, on demand.

no matter how ineffective the booster or how easy the covid mutates, there would have been customers. The only thing I can think of now is that it may be harmful.

it’s a speculation ofc, and will see better next year if this continues (no new booster released or released only for the elderly), and if this strategy is taken up by other countries as well.

what I know for sure that is no one leaves money on the table. I mean there are lots of “placebo” types of quackery out there and they make millions. Any jab, even weak, etc would have made money.

will see better as time passes.

I am eligible for free flu vax due go health and I was offered a booster so I suspect it is being offered like the flu but you can't buy it.

@CristinaNov182 Just to be clear I agree with you on principle. But pointless vaccines are just that - pointless. It’s about keeping up (and I agree funding is a factor) and I don’t think any country’s doing a great job with that (pharmaceutical companies would jump at the opportunity to make millions).
We (world) have always been not that great with sudden pandemics unfortunately

@maddening that’s my point. You can buy the flu jab if you want /not eligible to have it for free, why not the covid booster?

Not harmful, more ineffective. So, budget considerations maybe unfortunately

What funding are they lacking? They made billions, their stock sky rocketed… what more could you want.

And it could be scaled back, ofc, offer it on demand with a price to sustain it. That is just basic business.

im not asking pharma to provide it for free or through gov.

I’m just theorizing here, but that would not go down well with the population

But I don't think that not being able to buy it is an indication that it is harmful.

I wonder what cost per unit is? Is flu cheaper after all this time? I thought that the mnra ones were quite expensive unlike astra zenica which is not on the table anymore. And we don't have a picture of global supply etc

Pharmaceutical companies yes definitely made a fortune, the government buys it from them though.
An inequality system when you can only get it if you pay is just not right for a world pandemic

@maddening there are jabs that cost in the 100s, for example I was looking at chicken pox. It’s around £180, £200. It’s still offered, and it’s priced to make a profit. And some people buy it! I will buy it for my children if they don’t get chickenpox until end of teenage years, because it is very harmful if you get it first time as an adult!

that’s just how business works.

the lengths people go to justify this is laughable, I’m wasting my time.

I’m definitely only theorizing here again, but AZ for instance reputation definitely went downhill vs Pfizer.
I don’t know the intrinsics of pharmaceutical vs government though, well pharmaceutical yes, it takes a while to create a vaccine.
It just doesn’t feel like anyone’s keeping up