To say the government is right to impose minimum service levels on nurses

[Stackss]

So today the nursing unions have announced they will be withdrawing from A&Es, intensive care units, chemotherapy and other key services. Now, I am not a conservative voter by any means and I do think nurses should get a fair pay rise (although I don’t think 10% is affordable).

However, I don’t think it is acceptable for unions to be putting lives at risk by refusing to provide life-saving care. The armed forces and prison officers are not allowed to strike- I would now support minimum service levels being extended to nurses to prevent the unions doing this.

I suspect I am not the only one and the unions need to be careful not to shoot themselves in the foot.

@Autumndays123 you really are talking bollocks. Already admitted that we are essentially unskilled, lazy air heads. Then the often repeated rubbish about gossiping at the nurses station.
No other profession on MN attracts such derision, no other profession has randoms opining about it as if reading a few womens' health magazines gives them an insight.
I actually think most posters on here are males, misogynistic dinosaurs, cos it's sure not a site that is feminist or supportive of women.

Kinda missing the point there.

You can choose to make the most of the circumstances you are in and campaign politically for change or you can chose to take action that makes those circumstances worse.

I can't fathom choosing to take action that make the situation worse For people you profess to care for

Actually that is exactly what I think when I see those nurses outside the hospital.

I think of every patient who won't get care because the person meant to be doing the care is stood on a roundabout shouting.

@Autumndays123
so my job is only physically demanding?

Yes it is very physically demanding. Repositioning patients that are completely dependant and if any tubes or wires are dislodged could result in them dying. That is physically demanding.

It is also mentally demanding - I have to commence and titrate infusions that affect blood pressure and calculate rates according to patients weight and response. If these infusions stop or run out for even a few seconds patients can arrest.

I manage a patients sedation and ventilation needs and if I left my patient’s bedside I need to ensure that someone has eyes on them every minute that I am absent. If the patient stops ventilating or suddenly wakes up and dislodges their ET tube they may arrest.

I administer neat potassium and monitor response - if potassium level is too high or low the patient can arrest.

I manage dialysis and keep the machine running. If lines are dislodged such as dialysis lines or arterial lines then the patient could bleed…. a lot. And guess what? Yes - the patient could arrest.

And of course in such a high risk area I have seen lots of terror and death over the last 20 years which is extremely emotionally demanding.

This is just a sample of things I do in a 12 hour shift. I spend very little time at a desk chatting. Not even allowed a drink of water in clinical area let alone a coffee.

I do all this as a band 5 nurse, as-well as training new staff (to replace all the one’s who couldn’t carry on after covid- yes we did ‘haemorrhage’ staff at that point) so that when I eventually retire there will hopefully be staff to carry on caring.

But you go ahead and compare my job to a supermarket worker (who I agree are essential and important to us) in terms of emotional and mental stress.

Oh - and piss off with your scorn of nursing degrees you low life.

When we get a minimum level of service from our government I might consider others should.
They are the ones who are putting lives at risk by wasting billions on flawed procurement to enrich their mates and giving billions in tax breaks to rich organisations, whilst under funding the health service to an extent that the least radical of employees in the history of the state feel they have no option but to withdraw labour.

@Icedlatteplease

What makes you presume there wasn't any political campaigns prior to the strikes?

I have to agree. Maybe the unions could pay for banners which say something like ‘also supported by…’ and then list the names of the people who can’t come that day.

@Donotunderestimateme I work in ICU also. Funnily enough I'm flexi retiring this month at 56 so 30 years experience lost. I'll only be working 17 hours a week and really cannot wait ! 60 colleagues have also voted with their feet and left to be replaced with international nurses mainly from developing countries. I guess that is the government's answer and why they don't really care.

To be blunt. People die needlessly every day as a direct result of the actions of the current crop of politicians. It's not a theoretical position or political position it's a fact. Deciding to enriching certain sections of society is done with the full knowledge that this means certain sections of society will needlessly die through lack of resources.
So stop trying to make healthcare professionals morally responsible by saying they should not be able to house themselves or bring up a family because they should be trying to cover all the failings of a morally bancrupt political establishment.

@Sweetcarol i hope you enjoy every minute of your flexi retirement.
we also have many new starters from developing countries and I think some of them are regretting their decision to come here.
they will account for many of the new entrants on the NMC register. We are not training many nurses at home. We need to attract more young people into the profession. It is unethical to poach developing countries healthcare staff.

The government is putting lives at risk daily due to constant underfunding and staff shortages. Far more serious.

I'm not a low-life - although I don't think you know what that word means which is quite ironic when you've used it in the context that you have.

Nurses are losing support. Fast. I'm not surprised. I'm glad that some people on this thread can compartmentalise and shrug off the death of innocents who will now suffer in the name of more money. Not for me unfortunately. It's concerning how little empathy towards others those who are here claiming to be nurses actually have. Sadly, that could well be why I've seen so many horror stories.

It is the government that is putting patients' lives at risk, and have been doing so for a decade or more. Currently almost 12% of the population waiting for a hospital appointment, and 500 excess deaths a week.

As for pay rises being unaffordable, remember that the UK is supposed to be one of the wealthiest countries on the planet - the 5th/6th/7th wealthiest economy in the world.

Then look at the latest per capita spending on healthcare.

UK spends $5,387 per person;
Germany spends $7,383 = 37% more
Austria $6,693 = 24% more
Sweden $6,262 = 16% more
France $6,115 = 13% more
Denmark $6,382 = 18% more

This under-investment is not just reflected in the pay (and number) of nurses, doctors and other healthcare professionals, but also in the state of the equipment, facilities and buildings in the NHS. Equipment that is obsolete or regularly needing repair, housed in crumbling hospitals or in the shanty towns of 30-year-old "temporary" Portacabins that surround many hospitals.

@Havanananana

I think we have amongst the lowest number of physical beds and the govt still seem perplexed but why hospitals are constantly running at 110% capacity with ED waits in the days

Politicians are politicians.

Politicians doing harm is not justification for nurses doing harm

Yes campaign politically, but don't choose to take action that directly harms the people you care for.

It actually devalues the profession

You're not doing well to cover yourself in glory here. Your argument is that actually, nursing degrees are difficult and require high levels of intelligence but you don't know what low-life means are resort to using expletives on the internet to abuse strangers. Nice

@Autumndays123

Still waiting for you to explain how nurses who are lacking in skill, intelligence and education can have any bearing on imaginary deaths

probably the comment will be deleted but @Autumndays123 knows what she is.
good luck to all the nurses on here and good luck to anyone unfortunate enough to become unwell while we have a government that doesn’t care about our basic needs and no respect for its staff

Don't feed the troll, people.

@Icedlatteplease

And when the political campaigns continue to fail to achieve anything?

What then?

This

Two wrongs don't make a right as they say.

You dont use it as justification to harm the people you are meant to care for.

Schrodinger's nurses: too vital to strike but not vital enough to have a real-term pay rise.

So pay is ín effect being cut by inflation every year. How low does it have to go before you think that their ability to feed and house themselves is important enough to outweigh their obligations to cover the failings in the decisions made by the decision makers, who are getting pay rises no problem. Or is there no floor to what they should accept because they are in a caring profession. The reality is that many have left because they don't have the energy or inclination for this fight. This is the absolute last choice of those left in this service. Do you really think nurses would be standing outside hospitals if they thought they had any other choice.