To say the government is right to impose minimum service levels on nurses

[Stackss]

So today the nursing unions have announced they will be withdrawing from A&Es, intensive care units, chemotherapy and other key services. Now, I am not a conservative voter by any means and I do think nurses should get a fair pay rise (although I don’t think 10% is affordable).

However, I don’t think it is acceptable for unions to be putting lives at risk by refusing to provide life-saving care. The armed forces and prison officers are not allowed to strike- I would now support minimum service levels being extended to nurses to prevent the unions doing this.

I suspect I am not the only one and the unions need to be careful not to shoot themselves in the foot.

@Onnabugeisha

That will be a no then.

The RCN have been a tempting to get decent pay for nurses for years. It's not related to inflation or COL.

It's related to the tories and austerity

Agree
Also laughing that Nurses should have safe minimum staffing levels imposed on them.

Nurses have tried for years, campaigning to get safe nurse/ patient ratios -The Francis Inquiry anyone?
Nurses would welcome this!
It's really easy to see who is completely clueless and making up crap!

From. December
Nuffield Trust's Chart of the week: What has happened to NHS staff pay since 2010?

www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/chart-of-the-week-what-has-happened-to-nhs-staff-pay-since-2010

These figures show again that NHS staff pay remained lower in real terms in 2021/22 than it was in 2010/11. As we saw in previous years, the drop has been sharpest among the highest paid, with the lowest paid somewhat protected. Doctors, nurses and all staff saw some recovery during 2020/21, with a relatively higher pay settlement and a slowdown in inflation as Covid-19 hit the UK, but this stalled or went into reverse during 2021/22.

There may be an extra n in my post, sorry.

If we don't pay NHS staff what they're asking for, their won't be an NHS.

And I think that's job done for them.

I think it'll be very interesting to see what minimum service levels they set because the unions can very easily point out and prove where they are above a daily norm - backing up their point.

Folks. I think we have been visited by quite an effective intern from the Labour party. Why else would someone so persistently pedal indefensible tosh about nurses and insist they deserve a pay cut?

Oooh, ooh, I know the answer to this one! You know, 'what makes nurses so special'. . .

Because without them, patients cannot be nursed, and patients die.

And because what they are currently being paid, means they leave nursing, or can't afford the luxury of nursing as a career, and that means we have less nurses. Oh, and because people look at the way nurses are treated and paid, and think 'fuck that for a game of soldiers, I'm buggered if I'm doing that, and I'll do everything in my power to discourage my kids from doing that'. And because the conditions are shit, and nurses are being forced more and more to take on ridiculous amounts of responsibility, with less and less safe conditions, which means they're up against the wall if something goes wrong, and it's more and more likely to go wrong, while being treated like shit, and paid something equivalent?

This is one of those threads that reminds me I don’t think anonymity should exist on SM. OP isn’t just expressing an opinion against strikes, they are gunning for individual nurses being held accountable. Aside from the very obvious batshittery in that, let’s all know what OP does for living, where you live and see how you like all your family, friends, neighbours and colleagues knowing what a repugnant individual you are. Then we can also all complain to you directly.

Or don’t you like the sound of that?

The NHS loses £300 million a year by Health Tourism.

And before people say that it's only 0.3% of NHS spending it's still a drain that ought to be plugged.

I can't believe they haven't got enough non-medical staff to deal with this.

Actually no. What I’m saying are not “lines”, speak for yourself.

The Truss-Kwartang mini fiasco was economically illiterate, much like your insistence that a “pay cut” or “pay rise” refers to wages in real terms, when these actually refer to the decrease or increase of wages in nominal terms, respectively.

Yes the strikes are absolutely about pay & are directly related to inflation and COL:

The pay rise demand from the union is literally inflation + 5%
COL is directly affected by inflation.
The nurses union is saying they need an inflation busting pay rise, because of the COL crisis caused by inflation.
This is why they are striking.

This is true of just about everyone though. Only a few professions have had a small drop in the value of wages in real terms. It’s not just nurses.

It was plan for all to see that the Conservatives economic plan in the autumn was illiterate. It is plan for all to see that not giving health care professionals pay that at least keeps pace with inflation is illiterate too, for all the reasons that have been explained numerous times on this thread.
Either you think nurses don't deserve the pay they get or you are happy to see the NHS destroyed, probably both.

Problem is OP, like the government, all you are focussed on is the money.
If minimum service levels were met the NHS wouldn't be in this mess, staff would not be overworked and targets would be achieved.

This is why I ditched nursing altogether. Typical perception of female dominated profession that one should be grateful for any crap treatment and pay.

Nursing is a safety critical profession. Pay is linked to that, not COL. expert nursing care saves lives. Saving lives can be done with an actual nhs workforce strategy in which there is currently none. This involves being paid properly and not being abused by Jo Public. Not the nurses fault they are not receiving the adequate level of service provision. And no indentured service is crazy idea. No one would ever endeavour to be educated as a nurse in the first place.

They clearly state that they are looking for pay restoration after years of austerity. The current issue with well below inflation pay rises is the straw that broke the camel's back.

Same across all the public sector. I've had my pay frozen twice now and 1% at other times until the latest whopping 2% increase in the middle of double digit inflation and sky-rocketing energy bills.

@Onnabugeisha

Still commenting nonsense about a subject you know nothing about?

Why should nurses care about other professions? Everyone is entitled to join a union and demand fair pay.

Yes it’s quite evident that nurses are happy to let innocent men, women and children die in pursuit of their 19% pay rise. So, I would not expect them to give two shits about the majority of workers on less pay than them, also struggling with the COL crisis, also earning 2010 wages in real terms, and also demanding better pay. I suppose we will see if this race to the bottom will end up with social care workers on half a nurses salary also striking and leaving the elderly to die of neglect.

I really despair for our society to see human lives used as pawns.

Yes, the current inflation is the straw that caused the strikes…which is 100% for more pay not patient quality of care as nurses pretend it says on the tin.

If you cared about "innocent men, women and children" then you'd care about retention of existing trained staff and the recruitment to fill those 130,000 NHS vacancies.
That's where the real damage lies.

Not having the right to strike due to the nature of your job isn’t even remotely like “indentured service” 🙄

@Onnabugeisha

Id absolutely support carers striking. Unfortunately most care work is privatised so they would be unlikely to get very far.

Thats what happens when you allow health care to be privatised.

I despair for a society that puts greed and profit over health care

For a society and the people in it that thinks its ok for a tax accountant to earn so much and a nurse so little.

For people who understand the value of nothing

I hope you don't expect the nurses you value so little to provide any health care for you any time soon

Meh, a turnover/vacancy of 130k out of 1.5m employees (or a rate of 8.7%) is actually almost half the U.K. average of 16.8%^.

Generally, a vacancy rate of under 10% is considered to be excellent retention. This is what I mean about the stats don’t match the narrative. Yes everyone you know has left due to pay/conditions, but not that many are leaving when you objectively measure it.

^www.ukmoney.net/average-employee-turnover-rate/

@Botw1
Tax accountants earn a little more than nurses:
Nurse median: £26,175
Tax Acct median: £29,487
www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=Tax_Accountant/Salary
www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=Registered_Nurse_(RN)/Salary