To say the government is right to impose minimum service levels on nurses

[Stackss]

So today the nursing unions have announced they will be withdrawing from A&Es, intensive care units, chemotherapy and other key services. Now, I am not a conservative voter by any means and I do think nurses should get a fair pay rise (although I don’t think 10% is affordable).

However, I don’t think it is acceptable for unions to be putting lives at risk by refusing to provide life-saving care. The armed forces and prison officers are not allowed to strike- I would now support minimum service levels being extended to nurses to prevent the unions doing this.

I suspect I am not the only one and the unions need to be careful not to shoot themselves in the foot.

Yes, I'd support it too, as long as the government agreed minimum levels of service on non strike days, which they don't

The only card they hold is the withdrawal of their labour. What do you think the government would do about their pay awards if they could force everyone to work regardless of how much they are paid. I guarantee that everyone would be a hell of a lot poorer and they would be offering pitiful rises or 1 or 2 percent that don't go anywhere near to covering even a small part of the inflation rises that have occurred.

It's an obvious attempt to prevent strikes and an attack on workers rights so yes yabu.

I'd quite like to see minimum service levels on MP's. And maximum amounts of pay, and conditions in line with the average public service worker.

Incidentally, there was an article about Australia really targeting nurses, doctors, police, etc to try and entice them to go work in Australia. . . I wonder how many are looking at the shit show over here and thinking 'why the hell am I here. . .'

This

Can we have minimum staffing levels on non strike days then please?

I'd like to see the government actually enter into negotiations and to attempt to restore minimum service levels which are currently lacking from the NHS even when there aren't strikes.

I often wonder who is spearheading these 'campaigns' behind the scenes and whether it's the same group of people because the likes of this, and also Extinction Rebellion, seem highly counter-productive to public opinion and like they're doing everything to retract public support.

Countries with left-wing governments such as Spain have minimum service levels so it is hardly an anti-union measure as the unions are claiming.

Missing the point slightly, but we don't know 10% isn't affordable.

Yes, MP's payrise is only going to be 2.7% but that takes them to over £84,000 and way above the national average (Google told me this was £33,000). How about we call out the kinds of people they are and say there IS money to give the nurses what they deserve.

But you are right. It just isn't fair to affect people's life saving treatment and there should be a minimum service. Although not providing that is perhaps the (very harsh) point.

Are you aware that the minimum staffing levels the government are setting for strike days are significantly in excess of the staffing levels the average ward/ unit runs on at present?

This government have been extremely careful to avoid setting minimum staffing levels for day to day running of the NHS.

On the basis of that hypocrisy alone I cannot support the move to do so for strike days.

@Askingforadvice78

The point is there are 650 MPs and hundreds of thousands of nurses (and millions of public sector staff, who would presumably demand similar rises). So to say a 10% pay rise for millions is affordable because 650 people have got 2.7% is nonsense.

Can we afford to keep losing staff from the NHS?

If life saving treatment that nurses provide is so important, why isn't paying nurses a reasonable wage important?

I do think nurses should get a fair pay rise (although I don’t think 10% is affordable)

If you agree that nurses should get a fair pay rise but think that it would not be affordable, what solution do you suggest. It seems to me that the options are for nurses to continue to work for free beyond their shifts or to be strike.

What do you suggest ?

When was the last time you went into hospital? The minimum service level isn’t being met on a normal day, let alone a strike day. It’s bluster by the government to make the nurses and the unions seem uncaring, when in actual fact poor service levels and working conditions are part of the reason for strikes.

I don’t think this is true . I have seen the email from RCN . Although the derogations are not the same they remain committed to care for life and limb threatening emergencies .

"Putting lives at risk"

You say this, but they are striking because conditions are so bad that people's lives are being put at risk all the time.

@FinallyHere

Personally I would make a best and final offer of 7.5% to nurses, with a 9% rise for those who worked through covid.

I would set a deadline of February 28 for this to be accepted, with the alternative being a 2% increase on the basis that this is the expected inflation figure for later in the year.

Ireland have done this twice, and all it means is that nurses work for free on strike days under even more pressure than we're under already. There was no incentive for the government to give into our demands so what we got was pathetic. Australia did one hour walkouts and got what they wanted. Nurses will NEVER put a patient in danger for any reason. If we walk out we will have made provision for patient safety using other multidisciplinary team members for support.

MPs have received good pay rises every year since 2008, while NHS staff got 0% in many of those years (austerity) so in real terms NHS pay has gone down.

Unless they want to continue to see staff leave, they can't afford not to give them a decent pay rise.

Lives are already at risk thanks to the government. Will there be a minimum service requirement on the government too?

In case you hadn't noticed, slavery had been illegal in the UK for quite some time. The fastest way to force even more staff out of the NHS and public services is to make it illegal to choose to withdraw your labour.

@Stackss

Why 7.5 % and what does working through covid have to do with anything?

ER have officially changed their tactics FYI.

If we can afford record profits for energy companies, year on year MP pay rises when public services had none, subsidised food and drink for MPs, charitable status for private schools, opaque offshore investments and spaffing billions on Brexit and dodgy contracts, then I think the pay rises must be affordable.