There is no way the government can let these next lot of nurses strikes go ahead

[fissty]

They are going to have to back down.

During the last lot of strikes we put forward certain cases for derogation (ie cases we wanted excluded from strike actions and staffed) ie emergency operating lists which always run 24/7, big complex surgeries (I put one forward for a complex case involving 6 consultants which had been 3 months in the planning and it was refused). The only thing we had running was one emergency theatre which had life and limb cases only on the day (so nothing pre booked). All cancer, all paeds, all other cases cancelled.

now the RCN are coming out saying they are going to be stricter with what they allow to run this time, the government are going to have to back down. How can they not?? It was literally life or limb last time!

I support the strikes, I went out on the picket with them last time, surely the government are going to have to capitulate now?

@FormerlyPathologicallyHappy

Are doctors doing a great job of flagging themselves as a problem profession too?

They are about to strike.

Although I'm fascinated to hear how we could do without nurses and carers

They will as the dates get closer. You can guarantee the teachers strikes on 1st and 2nd March will be publicised.

The issue for the government is that a huge number of people support the strike action.

@Alexandra2001, I do think 17.6 percent is unreasonable. I know there is a big retention crisis in NHS. I suggest more nurses are trained instead of the cap in place by only so many places available. I also think student nurses should get reduced uni fees so maybe only pay £4500 per year. I think it would help if there were rewards for long service so after 3 years service £3k, after 6 years £5k, after 10 years £7k etc. Other government services like education also have a massive recruitment crisis with over half of workforce will reach retirement age within 10 years. Anyone working in sector that government controlled their pay has had very poor pay deals over last 7 or 8 years. Civil servants have had pay freezes for 3 years then 1 percent, then 2 percent.

Good luck trying... not having enough staff is one reason we have 7m folk waiting for treatment and that is expected to increase to 10m.

anyone who compares miners with nurses is very wide of the mark

We already know this government are seriously inhumane. They're not bothered if people die. On the contrary, they're quite happy if the number of sick and infirm are reduced as it'll save them money.

I don't buy the "if they pay nurses 10% they'll have to pay everyone 10%" I'm in a different public sector role, colleagues are also striking and our salaries have also been eroded for 10yrs but I'm not so blind that I can't see that if it's a choice, then nurses deserve their 10% more than me, they put themselves on the front line during covid, their working condition are horrific, Id like to be paid as much as i was 10yrs ago but I'd be much happier to know that nurses were paid enough to live on and consequently a functional NHS would be there for me when i need it.

The government won't agree to the striking workers demands, they will introduce new legislation to make it harder to strike, or that make it illegal for parts of the NHS to strike like with the police.

They can invent new professions, band 4, limited clinical knowledge but practical skills & then band 2 hcp doing the grunt work, one band 7 sister overseeing. The government can plan long term, a labour government won’t save them based on the last labour government, they’ll run with it if they see a saving.

Necessity is the mother of invention. The strikes create necessity.

Spot on

Whilst they may say they are going on the to, like in many other areas, they never actually follow through.

@FormerlyPathologicallyHappy

Thats not doing away with the need for nurses though

You'd need the band 7s to agree for a start

Scotland have offered an average of 6.5% taking the newly qualified wage to £30k rising to £37k for a band 5 which is 48% of the workforce plus a one off payment which is about £500 for a band 5, less if a lower band, more if a higher band. Much lower than what the RCN are asking, but as a nurse, i feel this is a realistic offer.

I hope Scotland accept and England, Wales, and Ireland follow suit.

Problem is @FormerlyPathologicallyHappy a band two, come April, as with last April, will be below minimum wage again. They got an emergency uplift last year, suspect they will have to this year, which then erodes the value of other banding

@lacey79

The e new pay offer in Scotland is at least a start.

Im more interested in the proposed changes to agenda for Change

Id be even more interested in reforms to health and social care

Training more nurses requires more placement time and thats hard to manage with large increases in numbers & without the means to retain, would they stay if they can earn more abroad or in private health.

Your idea of long service awards should be looked at but i think it needs to be larger amounts and proven to work.

Problem with lower fees is the resentment it would cause for previously trained nurses but having to pay full fees.. addressing that would cost a lot of money.

Yes agree, public sector workers have been screwed over, hence they are strike.

I think a 10% pay rise would settle this dispute.

They need to sort out the training first. I'm a third year nursing student the attrition rate is shocking half have dropped out. I've had a cancer scare and a major operation , I have managed to attend all my practice placements and pass everything. I'm on a track to gain a first. Today we received a threatening email from university saying if we didn't attend face to face lecture or log in from home live (which is a PowerPoint easily done at home ad-hoc) we could be kicked from the course. This is not skills sessions I'm talking about it's theory !! Many will work in theory time and watch the lectures later because they are skint!!! They haven't given a shit in 3 years about attendance many of us have good grades.

They have been non drivers on placements two hours away on 12.5 hour shifts then not allowing swaps. Students were delayed going out on practice by 2 weeks and were asked to defer meaning they would not qualify on time due to the university. They need to start treating students better than they might want to train.

It's such an inflexible horrible course no wonder hardly anyone wants to do it.

Sadly my recent experiences in hospitals have made me wonder if I support the strikes. Last year during visiting in hospital I found the nurses to be rude and uncooperative. Some were just plain lazy!
I’m also aware that some hospitals are still enforcing that any staff that test positive for Covid have to stay at home for five days (regardless of the severity of their symptoms). Might explain some of the staff shortages.

The Government give no fucks I’m afraid.

@Ladysodor so you really think it’s a good idea for a covid positive nurse to care for an immunocompromised patient and potentially make them very sick?

I'm NHS staff. They bring in agency nurses because they have to. They earn more in one shift than I do in a week.

I agree with @melonraspberry just overhearing conversations in shops, restaurants & swimming lessons etc over the past couple of week, I see public support waning already.

They do not care and won't back down. Actually, if someone dies, they can say that they really need to ban medical workers from striking forever, as they cannot be trusted to safeguard the public when it comes to critical cases.

Plus the public will turn against them

The government has nothing to gain by backing down. They could give everyone working in the NHS a 50% pay rise but they’ll still lose the next general election.

I agree, it is just not affordable.

If we still had miners our fuel bills would be a lot cheaper