There is no way the government can let these next lot of nurses strikes go ahead

[fissty]

They are going to have to back down.

During the last lot of strikes we put forward certain cases for derogation (ie cases we wanted excluded from strike actions and staffed) ie emergency operating lists which always run 24/7, big complex surgeries (I put one forward for a complex case involving 6 consultants which had been 3 months in the planning and it was refused). The only thing we had running was one emergency theatre which had life and limb cases only on the day (so nothing pre booked). All cancer, all paeds, all other cases cancelled.

now the RCN are coming out saying they are going to be stricter with what they allow to run this time, the government are going to have to back down. How can they not?? It was literally life or limb last time!

I support the strikes, I went out on the picket with them last time, surely the government are going to have to capitulate now?

Unless inflation become negative they will have still lost a significant amount of money. Say you get paid £100 with inflation at 10% that should now be £110 if inflation say drops to 5% that becomes £115.50 the next year. What we are basically asking is for public staff to take another real terms pay cut. What they need to do is give a restorative pay rise against the 2008 award then put a triple lock on it like pensions. I think the NHS is unique in that they have a literal monopoly on educated staff with few private GP etc compared to the number of private schools to which teachers can jump ship.

What they need to do is give a restorative pay rise against the 2008 award then put a triple lock on it like pensions.....I see absolute zero chance of that happening.

I think the NHS is unique in that they have a literal monopoly on educated staff with few private GP etc compared to the number of private schools to which teachers can jump ship

There are a handful of private schools compared to state schools where a few state school teachers could leave and move to, but isn’t that similar to the handful of private hospitals/clinics where nurses could move to?

All of your money calculations mean nothing when they just magic billions of pounds on a whim. This system is crashing eventually, we all know this, money means nothing any more.

I don't think I'd notice an A&E strike. The last times I've been in the department - there isn't enough service left to be affected.

The gov could stop the strike at any point by agreeing to even negotiate, but I don't think they will. I don't think they care if people die. I think they will spread a bunch of news stories about nurses (and teachers, and everyone else striking) being horrible and selfish, pay themselves on the back and consider it a good day's work.

The government are awful. On another thread there is a nurse with 22 YEARS experience on £32k. And on another thread a dh 'works in IT' for over £100k. The world is just wrong, absolutely crazy. Those salaries need swapping over!

Can't afford riots. Can't afford the petrol for some Molotov cocktails.

I think they're trying very hard to ignore and hoping that nurses etc give up, but pressure is mounting and soon they'll have to do something as the ignore tactics have failed.

In the last nurses strike a friend had a hip replacement planned (NHS hospital) and we were all surprised that it went ahead as normal with all the post-operative services etc unaffected.
Very much doubt another strike will make any difference. Same with the teachers' strike. They are perceived as politically motivated anti government protests and most people have more than enough problems of their own to be having sympathy for others demanding more money too be paid for by increased taxation.

Inflation has dropped from 10.5% to 10.1%

Whoop - de - bloody do. Prices are still going up by 10% on average.

And no - the government will not be giving one shiny shit about the nurses. They can all afford private healthcare - and 'there's no money'

Perhaps some of Centrica's £3 billion profits could be used to bolster up wages?

Or maybe if this hadn't happened - Guardian headline -

Toby Helm and Phillip Inman
Sat 12 Nov 2022 20.02 GMT
Liz Truss’s disastrous mini-budget cost the country a staggering £30bn –

That might have helped.

There are 704, 520 nurses on the register - divvy up the money that Truss literally put down the the drain - and each nurse could have had a lump sum of £42,582 !!

'Could have had'
'Wasted money'
Past tense.
Future pay increases require increased tax or borrowing.
No government will be able to do it. A Labour government wouldn't be able to. And in fact likely to be more strikers under a Labour government because of a perception that they would roll over and accept higher inflation.

I couldn't believe our cancer cases were refused last time. Worst thing is we had more than enough staff to run the lists.

The strikes aren't making headlines but they should be - people could absolutely die quicker because of them.

I support the strikes fully but to be honest as a member of ops team my heart is sinking at the thought of another one, they cause so much work for us.

We are wasting billions on agency staff because we can't recruit nurses. There are often shifts where an agency nurse will be on double the wage of the NHS staff, and as the NHS staff are permanent they will carry most of the work.

We can't afford to let this carry on.

In the first strike we cancelled around 4 surgeries, all planned, all with notice to the patients. Rcn agreed to exemptions for all of our cancer, trauma and emergency staff, plus critical care and A&E. We even kept some outpatient staff where there were 2 week wait clinics planned.

Last time we cancelled 15 cases, most on the day as we just couldn't stretch the staffing. This included very long waiters but no emergency or cancer patients. All outpatients was cancelled, A&E was derogated as was critical care.

This time the rcn are advising they will derofate nothing and we will be expected to support life and limb services with the staff who do turn up, and with other professions. Not entirely sure how I will get a physio trained to support complex theatre scrub, or a radiographer to manage an intensive care patient. I'm really worried about how we will keep services safe and we have lost many many clinical and management hours into planning the strikes to mitigate the impacts as far as possible on patient care.

I get that is why the rcn need to escalate. Their goal is maximum disruption to secure change. Whilst I continue to support the reasons the nurses (ambulance workers, physios, and soon to be doctors) are striking I don't know how we can move on from here if the government won't even come to the table.

The government is trying to control inflation. That’s why they won’t agree to 10%.

No they don’t back down … because then they would have to back down for everyone and they simply can’t afford to

I doubt they think that given that 'the great british public' have continued to elect them ad nauseum despite their liesxand f#×÷ ups

Yep, this. Also I think everyone striking at the same time has also led to a lack of impact. ‘Everyone is striking, aren’t they?’ said my neighbour yesterday. It becomes normalised, and life goes on.

I’ve been on strike recently and I support strikes.

but I’ve just heard on the news that chemo treatments will be cancelled so I’m out, I can’t support that .

It really worries me this time. The suggestion that ICU and NICU wouldn't be staffed terrifies me. But I don't think the government care. They've already criticised nurses for putting patients at risk, without taking any responsibility themselves. They said money was off the table for discussion so where does that leave us?

Nurses don't go into it for the money, but of they aren't paid more then they can't expect the NHS to retain staff. There is no incentive for staff to continue dealing with the huge workload, lack of breaks, constant understaffing of shifts, pressure of life saving decisions etc etc. So they leave. At least if they could afford to pay the bills then they think they can probably keep doing it a bit longer.

I don't think they will. They know they're going to lose the next election by a landslide, their mates want the NHS to fail so private companies can make money from the scraps - there's no reason for this government to give nurses a pay deal. They're literally just counting time until they're released from office.

Everyone who voted Tory at the last election is responsible for these strikes.

I think if the strikes have lost me they’re going to lose a huge proportion of public support by escalating like this. I know it’s down to the Govt but it’s the union’s decision. I only hope it’s a negotiating ploy.

Inflation dropping just means the costs won't rise as fast, the current issue of the real time cut in pay for public sector workers over the past ten years or so will still remain. It's just the optics will be different.

I actually don’t think they are going to lose public support. I think the public are going to blame the Government.