To think that good things seem to be seen as, middle class?

[QuertyGirl]

I see this a lot on here and in other places.

At the moment we have people discussing whether Park Runs and 15 minute cities are middle class.

I've seen the same around loads of other stuff, from breastfeeding to getting outdoors, gardening, museums to healthy eating.

Do we have an inherent snobbery in our culture in that we equate good, healthy stuff with being a bit posh?

I come from a very working class family and arguably live a middle class lifestyle now, so this stuff fascinates me.

Anybody else?

You’re right.

I think it is seen as middle class. I'm definitely working class but do a lot of "middle class" stuff. My kids do rugby/ kayaking/ ballet/ climbing classes. We spend lots of time at the local loch doing paddleboarding in the warmer months. Wild camping or in the camper van. I bf till two, like to cook home made food, am enthusiastic about museums and would rather spend money on kit (good boots/ waterproofs/ wetsuits/ paddleboards) than on takeaways/ eating out / cinema/ expensive trips.

Children do much better when they've had plenty of fresh air and exercise. You do have to have the right kit it's miserable feeling cold/ wet.

Give over! Getting to lick the bowl after making cakes is a very good thing, and that's definitely not middle class.

Jeez I wondered how long it would be before the chav bashing started… ‘more successful’ ffs. I wish some of you were ‘better educated’, you may think before coming out with this patronising bilge 🙄

I wish people understood how damaging the class system is. There are many people - including those in leadership - who absolutely despise those who they perceive as lower down. They'd quite cheerfully stand back and watch us die.

Class isn't about avocado, ballet lessons and reading the classics, it's about vast numbers of people being exploited, not being able to access decent public services and dying prematurely.

It is just that successful, better educated people make better choices and often live better lives than some other "classes" of people.

I can't believe you actually wrote that. are you that lacking in any iota of critical thinking?

Lots of those things are statistically true. If you are middle class you are more likely to breastfeed, eat healthier food, take your children to more cultural activities, exercise more etc. That's why lots of research I done on what barriers there might be and how to remove them. I think PHE does lots of work on this as it is obviously as public health issue.

Why is classes in quotes?!?!🤣

This one will be deleted soon

I am definitely working class and proudly so! I’m probably more educated than most people I meet, even in the academic arena.

The idea working class people stop being working class once they have or do nice things is bonkers. The thought working class people have to remain poor for life and scrimp and save to survive is also bonkers. It’s true that most working class families are struggling right now but not because of
anything they have done. The enforced social class does not dictate their worthiness regarding niceties

To suggest nice things are considered middle class is bs.

The nicest thing in the world to
me is a hug. It’s free and not class dependent.

@GCautist

I actually agree with you,

It's why I object to anything good, positive change being immediately labelled as middle class

@stbrandonsboat Hear Hear! All this middle class/working class stuff is just another thing perpetuated by the establishment to keep us divided - nothing many people like more than feeling they're superior in some way to others.

I know what you mean, so much of outdoor life and what were simple survival abilities - from crafts and growing veg to walking and an interest in learning and ecology - are seen as middle class. It’s partly because the class system has been entrenched for so long. Imo All these things were taken away from poorer classes and replaced with global Americanised consumer culture. Richer folk really have no idea what life is like when you really do not have “just” that spare fiver to spend on anything. Resentment built, resulting in outright rejection.

It had never occurred to me that something like a park run is considered middle class...

@RosaGallica

It's wierd when you think about it, because so much of that survival stuff was the defining of working class for centuries. Now it isn't!

The WC were growing their own long before the MC decided growing their own Kale made them 'better' than the WC .

You can buy (crap) stuff now for so much less than what it costs to make, which doesn’t help. It reminds me of the reasons people used to give in the 1990s for poor lives in the third world: being flooded with cheap crap that local suppliers can’t compete with. While “foreign investment” and associated corruption rules at the top.

I think a lot of MC people do think this.

While the WC people I know wouldn't buy it for a second.

A lot depends how you are defining class.

technically, class is defined by the job YOU DO. Not the job your parents or parents parents did.

so if you do a manual job like bus driver or a plumber or nursery worker, you are working class.

if you do something non manual, you’re not.

as the structure of work has changed, less and less people fulfil the technical definition of working class.

education and income have also made things more complicated.

it used to be very few people were educated past 18, or even 16. Now most people are, and 50% of school leavers go to university.

more jobs that used to be manual / working class have gained qualification entry requirements with a different status. Eg nursing degrees.

income can be a proxy but can also confuse things. Something like working in a call centre may not be well paid. But it’s not manual work so technically isn’t a working class job (whereas working in a shop or doing care work is).

SO statistically, people on lower incomes and with less education do report doing less of the things the OP listed.

AND a lot of people who now have higher in incomes and / or more education and / or do not actually work in a manual job still ‘identify’ as working class, as their parents were or told them they were.

so, it’s complicated.

I think the ability to do lots of these things is affected by financial insecurity per se, but also that longterm financial insecurity creates a different set of aspirations and different priorities about how one wants or needs to be perceived by others.

per se isn't right - i think i mean 'in and of itself'.

The thing is you can be 'middle class' and do park run, go to museums, National Trust, kids have music lessons etc but have a job that isn't brilliantly paid. You can be 'working class' and earn decent money eg doing a trade. But you don't see many tradesmen eating vegan food, going to museums, wild camping etc. They might spend cash on nice holidays abroad, decent car, good clothes. Nothing wrong with either. I think each to their own. Thinking that you're middle class doesn't make you any better than anyone else. I also don't think middle class necessarily make better choices.

I recently came back from a skiing holiday - (Middle class pastime) Even the 70 year olds look great there. Went to the local supermarket in an affluent market town and what struck me was how old, tired and unhealthy everyone looked. Regardless of class, outdoor lifestyle can only be a good thing??

MN isn't representative of the wider population, it's full of people chasing class markers and when it suits are from working class backgrounds because their grandfather worked down the mine which helped their parents go into teaching.

Ha ha this is literally my background @Justanotherlurker 😁