To think that good things seem to be seen as, middle class?

[QuertyGirl]

I see this a lot on here and in other places.

At the moment we have people discussing whether Park Runs and 15 minute cities are middle class.

I've seen the same around loads of other stuff, from breastfeeding to getting outdoors, gardening, museums to healthy eating.

Do we have an inherent snobbery in our culture in that we equate good, healthy stuff with being a bit posh?

I come from a very working class family and arguably live a middle class lifestyle now, so this stuff fascinates me.

Anybody else?

You can be 'working class' and earn decent money eg doing a trade. But you don't see many tradesmen eating vegan food, going to museums, wild camping etc. They might spend cash on nice holidays abroad, decent car, good clothes. Nothing wrong with either. I think each to their own.

@converseandjeans interesting point. One of the wealthiest people I know is a drainage contractor, his business has been very successful. Amazing house,two children at private school, and they do all the museums and outdoor stuff mentioned on this thread. So is this a case of working class job with middle class income? Can you have a foot in both camps?

This thread is a great reminder as to why I moved from the class ridden South East of England to the West of Ireland 🤦‍♀️ in '96

It is just that successful, better educated people make better choices and often live better lives than some other "classes" of people.

Pah

It is that some people have choices, not just that they make 'em.

@Coffeepot72

I think I would be happy for my children to do a trade. We're both teachers and always broke 🤷🏻‍♀️

Good for you, @Germolenequeen
I don't get this obsession with class.. only looked at the thread to see if it included anything different. Nope.

PS @Germolenequeen I bet the West of Ireland is beautiful. Slight envy! ;-)

@mamabear715

Thank you 😉

I live in Co Clare - it's a lovely place - well worth a visit 😊

I don’t think it’s a foot in both camps for many but there are many working class people with high incomes. There are also middle class people on low incomes.
Most of us just don’t care about class. My children are at school. We’re working class, as are quite a few of the families there. Interestingly, the ones who are what you’d call middle class are far from the wealthiest.

I think it’s down to either being university educated or in a well paid profession or being a business owner.
So the latter, let’s say you own a hair salon or barber shop or your a former builder and now own a building company. So your an employer. That’s kinda middle class to my mind, e.g. owning the means of production.

Replace 'make' with 'have'.

They have better choices.

(I know the original comment was deleted, but in case they're still reading)

The class diatinguishers here are hilarious to many of us immigrants. Most of us appear to be upper class or something with all our cooking from scratch, growing own veg/fruit/herbs, eating our "poor people's" food which is usually considered MC here, going to museums and on day trips, going to parks, eating foreign food in general, recycling...

It's hilarious because that's totally not a rich people game at all in many other countries. Where I am from poor people cook from scratch because ready meals are extortionate. We do all of the above to save costs!

Brits do tickle me with that class stuff because no one actually knows what makes you what class

The class thing confuses me why is camping with a compost toilet seen as more MC than a caravan holiday which often costs more?

I know what you mean.

I suspect that there is an element of conspicuous consumption that WC encourages but some elements of MC culture deliberately avoids

I agree - and most especially I hate people pretending class doesn't exist. Because as long as people identify or are identified by their class, it exists.

(I think people who say class doesn't exist live in VERY narrow MC social circles)

Because people often confuse 'pretentious' with 'middle class'.

What's pretentious about a compost toilet though? 😆

There are definitely certain pursuits that attract a certain type of person. For example, a middle class middle aged man is more likely to want to do a 100 mile challenge cycling barefoot across a hostile desert than a working class middle aged man, even if they had the same budget.

stbrandonsboat, thank you, this can't be stated enough.
converse, plenty of very comfortable tradesmen where I live who definitely do those 'MC' things, including the most MC thing of all; moving 100 m and 300k up the road for school catchment.
The British fascination with the class system is such an unhelpful distraction. People do not necessarily view themselves as 'workers' unless they do traditionally WC jobs, and this is a big blind spot in terms of placing ourselves in the context of a broader class analysis, engendering a sense of solidarity with other workers and aspiring to a fairer society.

@EveSix

Pretending it doesn't matter doesn't help those negatively impacted by it tho

The right to preach about saving the environment

I think the issue isn't strictly class, but the value attributed to particular activities that is the issue. So I think you're right in that different activities attract different groups, but one of the activities is praised and aspired to and the other is sneered at.

However it does seem to be that the class of people doing the activity seems to be what makes people decide which is more worthy.

Well it's easier, you know because your sh*t doesn't smell if you have money 😆

OP, I'm not saying it doesn't matter -apologies, I should have expressed myself more clearly. My comment about my tradesmen friends, although true, was facetious.
To me, class is an inextricable part of who I am, as important as 'mother' or 'woman' or my nationality (not British, hence the somewhat 'removed' reference to "...the British fascination"). Class absolutely defines me and how I operate in the world.
But not in terms of lifestyle markers or superficial class signifiers; to me, those are a distraction and seem to be what is most commonly discussed when the issue of class is raised. I see class as a massively detrimental byproduct of capitalism, in the same way that I see sexism as an inevitable result of patriarchy.
Class, by definition, points to exploitation, inequality, violence and injustice. It matters so much more than we give it credit for.

I take your point, OP but also counter it with the following.

• Bacon sandwiches on cheap white bread with shedloads of brown sauce.

*pickled onion Space Raider crisps

Oddly enough I was just thinking the opposite this morning. A family member lives in a working class village and when the energy prices surged, they all took turns going round to each other's houses to watch TV so they only heated one room once a week, instead of all sitting in individual homes, heating them, only to watch the same programme. Round here (v middle class) that would be unheard of. But it's a brilliant idea and i felt very envius of them when they told me. I love the kind of cameraderie that is considered my many middle class people to be overstepping boundaries . To me it seems friendlym fun, humane, practical - all round good.