To think that good things seem to be seen as, middle class?

[QuertyGirl]

I see this a lot on here and in other places.

At the moment we have people discussing whether Park Runs and 15 minute cities are middle class.

I've seen the same around loads of other stuff, from breastfeeding to getting outdoors, gardening, museums to healthy eating.

Do we have an inherent snobbery in our culture in that we equate good, healthy stuff with being a bit posh?

I come from a very working class family and arguably live a middle class lifestyle now, so this stuff fascinates me.

Anybody else?

Yes. There have been endless academic studies on this
There’s a lot of huge misunderstandings on class though, even in this thread
for example:
The thing is you can be 'middle class' and do park run, go to museums, National Trust, kids have music lessons etc but have a job that isn't brilliantly paid. Nope.

I'm Irish, live in Ireland and these posts about 'class' always interest/amuse me. It's such a strange concept, entire families being judged and allocated a position accordingly. It is, as you now know not something entertained in Ireland, everyone is just trying to enjoy life and thankfully it makes little difference if you drive a bin lorry or are the local judge, if you turn up to your hobby etc everyone is treated the same. Obviously wealth makes life easier than those who are struggling but it doesn't mean one is better than the other, I hope you are enjoying living in this small 'classless' country and that you felt welcome.

Yes, I do understand that. And I will never understand the urge people have to "prove" they are middle class or what belongs to the middle classes.

@Mercurial123

Because being perceived as working class holds you back

Class isn’t something society really focuses on, rhe evidence is on this thread where folks don’t even know how to define it

ive never heard of park runs and 15 mins cities as middle class. It will surprise many folks who take part or live in them you think so.

Oh come on, Ireland has a closely related culture to England and absolutely has a class system. Normal People by Sally Rooney is all about class. And if I told you my father went to Congowes then Trinity you'd absolutely know what class he was. The English are more open than some other cultures about class but to say it doesn't exist in Ireland or America or France is either incredibly naïve or disingenuous. And frankly I'd rather have a class system that recognises and accords value to culture and learning and thinking about the world than one like America where it's is all about monetary wealth and society is deeply divided and less equal than the UK.

Are you saying you can't be middle class if you don't have a well paid job? I'm not sure about that. I think there are plenty of middle class people who are in jobs that don't pay particularly well, myself included.

I have no idea what 15 minute cities are. I must be the lowest of the low.

Because being perceived as working class holds you back
Maybe, if you're living in a Jane Austin novel. Most of us working class people are busy working so don't tend to worry about how the other half live🙄
I can't say my main focus in life is to 'make it' to the middle class......after work I am busy with my children's hobbies (Riding and Scouting, both shockingly mean lots of outdoor time) or busy cooking for my family (yes, working class people can make meals from scratch). Most of us don't have time for navel gazing tripe about where we are in the class system.

No, it doesn't explain the obsession on here to be seen as middle class. You would be pretty shallow or insecure to care.

@Landndialamrhf You can be middle class and not earn any money.
And I do know well off working class people as I described before.

Park run is not middle class either. Or pretty lower middle at best. Proper middles go running with their friends.

Seems to me what is being described here is actually a caste system.

I wish people understood how damaging the class system is. There are many people - including those in leadership - who absolutely despise those who they perceive as lower down. They'd quite cheerfully stand back and watch us die.
Works the other way too, I come from a ‘good’ part of Dublin and when I moved to the midlands I got loads of comments about how rich I must be and how I’d probably never (insert some normal everyday thing). People assumed I knew how to find cleaners, about foreign holidays- I got it all the time along with people saying’of course you’re lucky, we’d never have been able to afford that’ about things we’d never ever done! There was absolute hate sometimes

You must live in a different Ireland than I did.

The thing about the internet is that you can be whatever you like. In real life you can live on a council estate and work as a cleaner, but on Mumsnet your children go to private school and go horse riding. It's fantasy, I think it's harmless and possibly somewhat therapeutic.

Given the things I like include hot tubs, all inclusive holidays, kebabs, outdoor furniture, Christmas lights, Staffordshire bull terriers, nights out with 'the girls', Butlins, eye lash extensions and huge hoop earrings, I think, on balance, probably...no.

Its just means living close enough to a Spar and the chippie so you don't need a car.

Not sure how lying is therapeutic? I'm sticking with insecure.

If you are looking to take something and market it, or items which you want to be "essential" to that thing (and make a tidy profit) you will market to those with, or perceived to have surplus money.

Parkrun - all you need is something comfy to run in - expensive jogging gear, or cheap as chips trackies
Organic food - allotment next to the railway line or Waitrose/ farmers market.

In the past the daily mirror marketed the Mirror dingy to it's readership to foster a small dingy for all. Not an expensive gin palace, a small boat at a cheap price

I think this is the Ops point.
Going for a mass organised run ( or other sport) is pretty working class. Allotments have always been working class. Owning a small dingy to catch fish is a common working class thing if you live near sea.
There are middle class versions with the difference that there is a “ right” way to do them ; right kit, tools, time and place etc. If you’re doing it “ wrong” then you’re working class.
Of course it doesn’t matter if you’re in leggings and plimsolls to run round a flipping park. But it’s not aspirational enough to be middle class.

Seriously?😀

@Doggydarling the most class conscious people I've ever met have been from Ireland (Southern). Particularly evident among people educated at Ampleforth/Downside/St Mary's where the parents continued to maintain property. Nice people but very class conscious. I''m in my 60s so people may have changed

Why can't people just do what they like and enjoy.

Wild horses wouldn't drag me to:

Ski
Park run
Wild water swim
Camp (of any description)
Go to a pop concert willingly
Be vegan or vegetarian
Potter around open markets
Buy clothes from charity shops (2nd hand)
Dress my dc (now grown up) like the Bisto kids
Cycle
Have a takeaway more than once a flood
Have to dress up on holiday/queue for food on holiday (Pret/Costa fine)
Go to the pub for a night out (unless arranged in a group - bit of a party)
Drink beer or shots
Wear high heels

I do like
Growing fruit and veg
Cooking
Art (paintings, decoration, furniture)
Reading
Gardening/Gardens
Churches/choral music
Shopping
Horse racing
John Lewis
Perfume
The hairdresser
Sustainability
Greggs

Yup, absolutely this is 100% aspirational snobbery. Middle class folk I know who are not like this were brought up by working class parents who had been financially successful but had strong common sense values and morals.

Lots of working class people I've known are way more attentive to their DC, mindful of healthy living, create an interesting and safe homelife for DC. Kids grow up helping with Chores, can use money, can make lunches, have manners and are considerate.

The most tiresome DC I know are from aspirational, entitled parents who lack real intelligence and model how to moan and complain.

Given the things I like include hot tubs, all inclusive holidays, kebabs, outdoor furniture, Christmas lights, Staffordshire bull terriers, nights out with 'the girls', Butlins, eye lash extensions and huge hoop earrings, I think, on balance, probably...no.

I find this fascinating too. I’m probably more MC than WC, I like lots of MC activities but I’m also partial to a nice easy week at a Spanish all-inclusive …..